Kiefer's Allure ...

Here's a new concept - maybe it isn't just looks. He probably makes a girl feel like a million dollars and is great in bed.

He has a great voice.

@9:54 AM, yes that's true, he has a marvellous voice.
But he is not attractif and in a certain way I like that even more than what all those supermen-alike weirdo's show of themselves. He's a great actor, and that counts.

"She?" ups his cute factor? ..~crickets~.. Really?

His ALLURE is one of the few Manly men left, not Effeminate looking boys all over tv and movies. Women like real men not girlie looking men.

It's VIRILITY baby..........yeah

"Will they last?" - Of course not - he's too freakin' hot for her!!

he's H-O-T and he's got a super sexy voice......nuff said!

HE'S HOT HOT HOT HOT HOT!!!!!!!!!!!!

Dear Blog Writer, that you don't think he's cute just goes to show how different perceptions make the world go 'round. It's cool that you don't... but, to many a woman (and, for that matter, man), including me, good god, YES, he's cute. Cute, hot, sexy, utterly edible in every way!!! You name it! I think she's gorgeous too and that they're gorgeous together. Will they last? Who knows. Time will tell. If they make one another happy (and who knows but, without knowing, I'm just thinking positive thoughts for them), I wish them nothing but the best!

Kiefer is so sexy! He's one of the greatest actors around and he's got rugged good looks that is often missing in the industry today. His voice is to die for! Siobhan? Yeah, she's okay, but she has not been able to put that spark back into Kiefer's eyes. His dog, Jayhay has gotten Kiefer to smile more genuinely than Siobhan has! Wish he would relax and rediscover his passion for life. Miss the old Kiefer!

Could it be that you're missing the publicly drunk Kiefer? Because, while I respect that you're clearly not seeing something there that you are missing, I'm just not seeing this "loss of spark" in him at all. He doesn't look bored or unhappy or unrelaxed or spark-less at all to me. What I see when I look at him right now is what I've seen in the past when he's sober and seems to be in a good place. (In general, that is... whether or not it has to do with a woman.)

It's true that we haven't seen a lot of those old familiar photos with him looking three sheets to the wind and he definitely does get a different look on his face and in his eyes when he's in that state. But, to me, not seeing that isn't a bad thing. For one thing, though I know he's always loved to party, I never necessarily believed that he was always deep-down happy at those times. I don't know if he is now either. I just don't see (as I get that you do) that he looks unhappy lately.

We TOTALLY agree about how sexy he is and what a brilliant actor he is, though! :)

rowdy kiefer lover...i think your dead on...she his type physiclly, and i know they are suppose to be madly in love, but all their photos look staged ...almost forced...except one from last august...i think he puttin on show...i miss old crazy kiefer who was always real...and free, he looks sober, healthy biut not crazy about the lady...who knows...

she is after his money! i know people who know her from her days at chanel when she was a model. she always looked for men who were loaded and easy targets...then gets them to marry her quickly. thats what she did with david...and i think poor sweet kiefer is her next target. i hope he wises up and gets a pre nup...bet she will pull a heather mills. im not a nay sayer, or a hater..its what i have been told by very reliable sources in her industry.

Interesting input, Wendy - thanks. The only thing I'd say, from where I sit - not knowing the people you're talking about - is that, while I take your word that you're not being a naysayer or a hater, I don't know whether or not those people are. What you're relating is hearsay and while of course it may be true, it also (depending on the motives of its source(s)) may not be.

You say that she looks for "men who are loaded and easy targets and then gets them to marry her quickly", which makes me curious... has she been married more than once before? I hadn't heard/read that... which doesn't mean it isn't true, of course! But that would be interesting additional information, if so.

she was engaged to a model for chanel. and they had already picked a date, got ring...and such..left him after 8 months of living together when she switch to david agency, and made moves on him...wound up very quickly on his arm and soon was married like in 8 or 9 months...my sources are not big kiefer fans...or non kiefer fans.They have no reason to lie. They just knew her..one worked with her...one was a model at david agency...im not repeatin all the seedy details because you are right it is hearsay...but i think its a very reliable source..i am a kiefer fan, and dont want to think of him ..like an easy target, i hope if this is true...that he can see it...thats all. I do think its true.maybe she will prove me wrong.

Christy, just curious, are you a friend of hers. If not, she should hire you for PR. This woman seems to have married David for his wealth and position and then when she achieved what she wanted which was a nice position at Allure she dumps David and moves onto Kiefer.

Looks like she moved in on Kiefer in July while she was still married to David; finalized her divorce while Kiefer was in jail and was ready to make her move, free as a bird, when he got out.

Now they are talking marriage after only what a few months. Why the rush for her to marry him? Hmmmmm, inquiring minds want to know.

I wish someone would explain this to me. Kiefer has already been divorced twice and as a fan of his I would just like to see him with a nice woman.

I hope I am wrong about Siobhan because if I am not this marriage will not last either.

by the way, im not wendy...i forgot to post my name. so i dont know her story or rumors. my post was above linda

you gals need to chill...maybe it will be a long engagement. like a few years.

Thanks for the additional info, Jill.

All info is great to have to try to put together the pieces of something from afar. Though I understand what you're saying about these contacts not being Kiefer fans, without knowing anything else about them, I still don't believe that it's possible (for me, from afar) to make a call as to their potential motivation regarding or relationship to Siobhan.

I completely acknowledge that they might be 100% correct about her. I also know, from experience in life, that people's judgement about someone else's motivation can be colored by all kinds of things. Human beings - and the reactions of other human beings to/about them - are complicated things! :)

Siobhan certainly may have all kinds of issues but, if she does, she won't be the only person in a relationship between her and Kiefer with issues. ;) If she's had a complicated past with men... well, Kiefer's had a complicated past with women too. Maybe their relationship, whatever it may be, is a big ol' disaster happening - or waiting to happen. But, then again, maybe it's not. Maybe, possibly, who knows this will be the time they both get it right. Or not. I just think that Kiefer deserves a chance to be happy whatever mistakes he's made in the past... and, who knows, maybe that's where she's at in her life too. Or not. :) Though of course it's possible that she's not good for him, I don't feel like I, personally, have enough information to make that call.

What I can say for sure (speaking just for myself) is that, while I completely get that others are seeing this, I don't at all see that he seems unhappy or bored or lacking in spark in her presence.

So, like most if not all of us, I'm just in watching from afar and hoping for the best for him. I just don't feel like I have enough info, from afar, to make a call about whether or not she's good for him or whether they're good for one another/together... so I'm just thinking positive thoughts and hoping for the best. I understand that others do feel that they have enough information to have made a decision about her/them and it's fine by me to agree to disagree on that. :)

Oops, I typed too much! :D Here's what got cut off...

So, like most if not all of us, I'm just watching from afar and hoping for the best for him. I just don't feel like I have enough info, from afar, to make a call about whether or not they're good for one another/together... so I'm just thinking positive thoughts and hoping for the best. I understand that others do feel that they have enough information to have made a decision about her/them and it's fine by me to agree to disagree on that. :)

Hi Linda. (If you haven't figured out, which you probably have, I'm dillon... just posting under my own name rather than a board id here... :))..

Nah, I don't know Siobhan from a hole in the wall. :D Actually, that's the whole point of my entire position on this subject. I don't know her and, not knowing her, I don't know whether I like her or don't like her or what I think about her at all... and, in the absence of that knowledge, I'm just wishing good things for Kiefer. :)

Given not knowing her or knowing anything about her in a way which I can make a personal determination about the source (which isn't to say that I don't believe Wendy or Jill... only that I don't know them... or the people who gave them this information), I don't feel that I can know: why she married her first husband or why she divorced him; how/why her and Kiefer's relationship developed; how good/bad - they may be for one another.

I certainly don't believe that they're talking marriage simply because of that single, very poorly sourced "news" tidbit that got picked up by all kinds of internet sources. If they are, imo, we out here in fandom don't know it.

If they do get married (and who knows?!), like you, I just hope it works out well. :)

Oops, that post to Linda was from me, Christy... forgot to enter my name... d'oh! :D

LOL, dillon. I actually figured it out after I saw your post to Jill which of course answered my question about you knowing Siobhan. I recognized the writings, LOL.

Here's hoping Kiefer is making the right decisions for himself this time.

See you on the other boards my friend!!

Kiefer has always been hot and always will be. He's classy and even under stress, he served his time with dignity and responsibility. I wish him nothing but good times.

What!!!! No Video!!!

Missing me some HOT, HOT Kiefer jeans in motion.

Come on X17 - where's the clip?

He use to be good looking, but too much smoking has ruined his look IMO. She has that "hamster hair " look that so many New Yorkers seem to love. They are a good couple.

i do think Kiefer is very hot in a (HA HA) "Little Lost Boy" kind of way. i also think Kiefer & Siobhan look cool together and they must have a good, secure relationship goin by the fact that she was comfortable out with him wearing shoes that make her a half a head taller. look at the diff in the height of their shoulders in the first pic.

one thing i groaned to hear about was another article where they said he was drinking again in public for what i think is the first time since he went to jail, looks like the sentence and the therapy didnt do much good. i'd be scared if i were him, thinkin about what it takes for most alchoholics to bottom out, just what it'll mean for him. he seems like a nice guy, i'd hate for him to end up in prison if he drives drunk again, especialy if he hurts of kills somebody like hulk hogan' son.

Wish he could see this and know that there are folks out there who want to see him cut the drinking and get himself togethr.

C'mon guys, they don't have a "relationship" at all! It's all staged, just a PR-thing, Kiefer doesn't show any PDA at all, he never stopped drinking and is still after other hot chicks! Read Defamer, May 23th!

C'mon guys, they don't have a "relationship" at all! It's all staged, just a PR-thing, Kiefer doesn't show any PDA at all, he never stopped drinking and is still after other hot chicks! Read Defamer, May 23th!

What is in Defamer on May 23?

Nothing probably... of course Nancy is Kiefer's best friend and has all the real info. SCHNORT. She wnt to S. Africa to be with him for a while, that's where he was rported drinking again :( in a hotel there with her at dinner. Of course, since Nancy knows all this stuff about him, maybe she could clear all that up, too. He's been photographed w/ her since last AUGUST. DUH... just more since he got out of jail. Sounds kind long for a PR stunt, don'tcha think, everyone? This isn't to make him seem more stable after getting out and if Nan were a fan who kept track of him or had some real insight, she's know that. Oh well. Time to give up being psychic about Kiefer.

Wishin' him that bestt.

Lol - someone got hit on his/her nerves...
I saw this Defamer-sighting, too. Search under Kiefer Sutherland and then "even jackie warner thinks sky sport is overpriced" and you can read the story. Don't know if it's true and there's a mix-up at the date though...

Defamer ain't exactly the new york times and gossip rags that can't get their dates right are about as useful as a broken clock if theyre pretending to keep tabs on celebs for you. Sib's been around for a while, just KS knows how to keep things quiet when he wants.

It's kinda embarrassing to show how jealous you are of a chick you don't know and a guy who wouldn't be interested. :)

Hey - who says he wouldn't be interested?? He just don't know me yet - LOL!!!

Or even better: maybe he was already interested and I dumped him?? How would you know????

I was talking about Nancy the Kiefer Prophet, not you, unless you are Nancy.

In any case, Sib's been around longer than it being for some publicity thing.

That Defamer sighting was 2-3 years old and there was some confusion as to how the story got mixed in with the current stories. I've heard the story before and you'll notice that the date posted is wrong too.

As much as I wish that Kiefer would stop drinking, I doubt that will ever happen. Yes, he was spotted having a drink with dinner in South Africa, but at least we haven't heard stories of him binge drinking in bars like we used to hear on a regular basis. I guess that's progress.

As far as Siobhan goes, no one here really knows her so who knows what's really going on there. I'm not saying those stories/rumours are true or aren't true, but we have to remember that females can be a catty bunch, if they don't like another girl, they will get nasty and say things behind their back whether it's true or not. We've all seen it.

And I've never understood why fans are always saying Kiefer is orchestrating a PR stunt. They said that when he was dating Tricia too. How would this be a PR stunt? It's not like he has anything to gain by being seen with her. I mean outside of the fashion world, she really is a "nobody", it's not like he's dating Angelina Jolie or anything. And from what we've seen and heard from KS over the past 20 years, he seems to do his own thing and could care less about what other people thought of him which makes this PR stunt talk even more perplexing.

I'm glad this is an old story - I would hate to see Kiefer doing still things like that... It would be so good he could stop drinking (what he appearently didn't :-( ), I don't want him to get in any further troubles and want him to live veeeeeery long!!!!

That Defamer sighting was 2-3 years old and there was some confusion as to how the story got mixed in with the current stories. I've heard the story before and you'll notice that the date posted is wrong too.

Hi, I agree with your entire post!

I think they look great together. She looks like she could just put her arm out and tuck him right underneath of it.

Unfortunately his history, as well as others tells us that for binge drinkers "just having a drink" will lead to binging eventually. The old saying that "100 drinks are not enough and 1 is too many " is true.

Unfortunately his history, as well as others tells us that for binge drinkers "just having a drink" will lead to binging eventually. The old saying that "100 drinks are not enough and 1 is too many " is true.

yeah, if he's telling himself and evryone else that he can contol it and whatever, the person he's fooling is himself. of cours, this all fits in with the denial aspect of the drinking too much. Realy thought his dad had tlked some sense into him. This is the fist time i've heard of him drinking after getting out but since it was so out in the open, you'd have to figure that it's something he's not been inhibited from doing at all. its hard to watch somebody so talentd trash themselves but it's a disease and ya gotta' love him in spite of it if youre in his life and it looks like Sib might and if your a fan, theres nothing wrong with still liking him and wishing him well. I feel bad for him but I still like him.

imo, Kiefer is an alcoholic. (I don't say that as a negative judgement of him, but simply as an observation based on what I can observe from afar/have learned from several years of gathering *lots* of available information about the guy.)

Given that belief, I too was hoping that he wasn't drinking now. That said, I'm not surprised to hear that he is. We have no idea whether or not he believes that he's an alcoholic (and, if he doesn't, it doesn't matter what anyone else thinks) or ever made any pledge to quit drinking. It's also possible that he's somewhat come to that conclusion (he's certainly talked in the past about alcohol being a problem for him), but still believes that he can control it. There certainly have been a lack of "Kiefer out & about smashed" stories since he got out of jail.

If he thinks that he can "drink a little", i think that he's wrong... but it doesn't matter what I (or anyone else) thinks unless/until he decides that for himself.

As for "talking sense into him", that's not, in my understanding or my experience (my husband is a currently sober alcoholic), how it works. Would that it did. :)

So, we'll see... and I'm nothing but wishing him well too!

How about we just wish them both the best and hope that everything works out the way it's meant to be. I am a fan of Kiefer's and think that the man is no dummy and can handled his life.

As someone who is a Kiefer fan, I too want the best for the man. If I believed that he was truly madly in love with this woman I would feel better about this relationship, but I just don't see the same spark he's had with other women. Obviously, fans have become divided into two camps on this issue and debate has become rampant. Just look at sites like www.kiefergr8.blogspot.com and wwwelizabethsplace.blogspot.com featuring pics of Sib's first wedding as proof of that. Like others before me, I do wish him the best.

Well, Cat, you and all the others are all entitled to your dumb-because-they're-based-on-nothing opinion of them - and I hope for real that theyre happy. you and the ones running blogs that are judging them as fake or doomed have no relationship with KS but gathering pics and maybe being jealous.

i'm guessing the reason the "debate" is rampant is because some people know they dont know and regard Kiefer and Sib as grown ups who can do what they want *and* *some* people dont get that they dont know.

Sib's been around for almost a year, which means she was there through all the other stuff tht went on for him that was bad recently and didn't disappear. maybe factor in that, hmph? and that she knows he's got a very clear alcohol problem, had to before they got together since its public news, and has been with him through the worst bit of it so far in his life. She's got her own carrer and money; she wouldn't need his and instead of picking someone in LA, where he lives, Kief's with her and they have to work to be together. She's been all around the world with him or went on her own to him, too, and travel, even for the rich is a pain these days. give her a little credit. Does all tht fit with them not meaning something to one another? maybe what youre seeing is a grown up relationship without all the carrying on K did in the past. i sure dont miss that.

and... someone's old wedding pics don't mean squat. there are pics from K's weddings too.

Bottom line; i don't think either of them are worried about what a bunch of people who don't know them think and thank god for that...

She wouldn't give him a first glance if he didn't have money. End of story.

These two are a great match. Both are motivated by money , "stuff" and apparently fashion. Not really intellectual types their next purchase, plane ride or restaurant meal.

These two are a great match. Both are motivated by money , "stuff" and apparently fashion. Not really intellectual types. Their world consists of the next purchase, plane ride or restaurant meal.

She wouldn't give him a first glance if he didn't have money. End of story.

Prove it to us. your brave anonymous opinion is nothing. she's got plenty of her own. are you saying that because you think KS is unattractive or that Sib's a gold digger? if so... what's the proff or are you jealous of one of them or both?

it's "thinks so" not "thanks so"....dumb-ass!

ok, did you forget to put your name, cos i sure didn't!
I can't believe you used the childish word dumb!
Oh, well. Not the reason i'm here!
Let me start off by saying,Jealous, picture gatherer, blogger, is so not me!
Can't be jealous of someone you don't know and probably never will! I have enjoyed watching his movies for years and don't give a blast who he is
dating, sleeping with or marrying! I just enjoy posting pics of him,if that is that a crime, then call the cops, i'm not gonna stop!
I have been a fan of his for a long time and enjoy 24 a lot! Gonna miss it when him, when Jacks gone!
OK, the reason i'm here!
In My Opinion, and speaking from experience, when we were first dating,my
guy and me were very much into PDA! we enjoyed each others company and so was Kiefer before he started seeing Sib! Haven't you seen him with, Julia,Kelly, Kathrine and whoever he was with at the time, holding hands, looking into each others eyes,smiling, a lot, and just enjoying being in each others company!Oh and sometimes, he wasn't drunk!!
Not the same with Sib! The latest pics, they are actually conversating, love it, they can talk, but look close, he is not happy, he doesn't smile,he's always looking off somewhere else,and once, we saw them holding hands, if i love someone,i'm gonna walk with him, very close, hold his hand,talk to him,let everyone know he's mine! She smirks at the camera as if to say to us fans,See what i've got and not you, Please,so you've got him, let's see some joy in that fact!
How do you know she has money? Do you know her personally? Probably Not!
You know for a fact she was in SA with him, there was an article stating that when he was drinking in SA(hmm i thought she was helping him with that!),and there was a brunett having dinner with him,presumably, his girlfriend, not with his girlfriend, presumably!
She's been around for almost a year? Wonder if Tricia knew that because in another article, Tricia was with him the night before he checked into jail, and he was supposedly going to propose to her when he got out!OK,He was seen with Sib, in August, was with Tricia in December, was going to ask her(Tricia) to marry him in January and now we're back to Sib!In My Opinion, someone needs to do some math,offically, together since April, and it's now June, of the same year!That is not almost a year!
It's been said that she's changed him, give him some credit, if he didn't want to change, he wouldn't, even with her help! And you don't get over being an alcholic in a few months or weeks,that's a lifetime thing, always labeled a recovering alcholic, speaking from experience,nope, not me, sorry, can't use that against me,but a close friend! You go through depression, rage,fear and dependecy on other things or people, i hope she will be there for him through it all!
Never once said they didn't mean something to one another, but since you brought it up, can you tell us, what they mean to each other,you have no idea, because you don't know them!
And if you do know them, girl give it up, we want details,proveable ones!
Wedding pics, that is not what i was going for, read the article!!They just happen to be with it!And isn't she smiling pretty?!
I hope this a very good relationship that will last throughout eternity and they will both be very happy!
But In My Opinion,not seeing it at the moment, prove me wrong, Sib,make him a happy man!

Yeah, Christy, I saw Siobhan's career on YouTube! What a joke she is. Have you read the fluff articles she has written? Yeah, I know, they're hard to find because there aren't very many of them. I hope Kiefer doesn't start drinking, again, he may go to the fridge and pull out a bottle of her moisturizer and drink it by mistake.

Many fans just want to see Kiefer happy, and, so far, he doesn't look happy at all. Another thing, if Siobhan was dating him last summer, she was still married to David. That makes her a cheat and Kiefer a cad for dating a married woman. Good foundation for a marriage, I daresay.

BTW, who set you up as the Kiefer expert, anyway? Have you had some past relationship with Kiefer? Doubt it.

People are just speculating because no one in the know is talking. Lighten up, girl, and retract your claws before someone gets hurt!

what i've got and you don't!Well, lets see some Joy in that fact!
She's supposed to be "helping him" with his drinking problem, ok,Give the man some credit here, if he didn't want to stop, he wouldn't and no amount of helping would stop him! Sib is there for him, ok, the article read, he was in SA, drinking with a brunett, presumably,his girfriend, presumably, not with his girlfriend!If it was her, great help she was there, huh!
Wedding pics? Did you even grasp what i was getting at? Apparently not!
If they are getting married,I wish for them all the happiness in the world, but In My Opinion, Haven't seen it yet!!

Someone said she was camera shy, Please, she eats it up!!!

by the way, the post before Rowdy is the beginning of mine, and You no name, said she has money,Do you know that for a fact! Probably not!

Rowdy Kiefer Lover, I didn't mention Siobhan's career (I think it was Maven in FL who did) so I'm not sure why you directed that particular comment to me.

As for the rest of your post, I'm just expressing my opinions like you're expressing yours and other people are expressing theirs. We all have a right to do that, even if we don't agree, don't we?

My claws aren't out and I'm not claiming to be a "Kiefer expert" any more than anyone else who's posting her opinions here is claiming to be that.

Like you said, everyone's just speculating... even if we are speculating differently from one another.

I respect your right to feel how you feel and say it even if I disagree with you and hope you'll extend the same respect to me even though you disagree with me.

Ah, okay, I just went back and looked at the post that mentions Siobhan's career. I thought it was signed by Maven in FL, but it's not (seems like it was earlier? it's weird because now there's no sig, not even 'anonymous').

Anyway, it wasn't me. I always post with my name and, if I forget my name, I come back and post to say "that was me." I'm not trying to hide what I think... and I wouldn't have used the word "dumb" to describe other people's thoughts/opinions.

Just as an observation, I notice that the "Posted By" line has disappeared in a few posts. I'm almost positive that the one that starts "The Defamer sighting was 2-3 years old..." was signed by "Heather" earlier. Now there's no "Posted By" line there at all... just as happened with the post that's addressed to "Cat" and that definitely talks to/about people in a way that I haven't and wouldn't (though Rowdy Kiefer Lover and Elizabeth both seem to think that I would).

Just for the record. :)

Many humble apologies, Christy! I was wrong about it being you who posted that comment. Please forgive me! I think that all of this speculation about Kiefer is getting to me, as well as others. As a fitting punishment, I had myself declawed! You are so right that we should respect each other. Again, my apologies!

I am glad that we do agree that Kiefer is hot. I think I am just a woman who enjoys the hell-raising, bad boy Kiefer so much more than the Kiefer who is being presented in the media at this time. He just doesn't seem to have his past passion for life. To hear him really laugh and give us that big gorgeous grin would be to die for!

I so agree with you valarie!!
He has a killer, no pun intended,smile!
And his laugh, awesome!!
And, no name,If you don't miss his hall raising, laughing, and would rather see him like this, ok!

Thanks, Valerie... and apology very much accepted! :D

I can't wait to see him on talk shows (maaaaaaaaaaybe for Mirrors... certainly - I hope! - for the prequel movie) and I think that's when we'll see/hear all of that because he'll actually be talking in front of the camera again. There hasn't been a single interview with him since September, which I certainly can understand (has given him a chance to re-enter public life without having to talk about the DUI/jail)... but I miss hearing him/seeing him in that way too. So I definitely understand what you're saying there. :)

(Going to start a new post, because I can't tell how long these can be before they get cutoff.)

Nope Christy, didn't think it was you at all! Didn't know who it was, notice i said, no name?
I was just responding to a comment!

I also can understand that you miss the BadBoyKiefer. I totally agree that there's a glint that he gets in his eye when he's on a roll that's extremely delicious. It's both sweet and devilish... both little boy and all man... so open and vulnerable and sexy all at the same time. *THUD*

But, for me, while I understand missing that (and there's part of me that does too), because I've thought for a long time that he has a serious drinking problem (I posted what I think about that above so won't write it again here), I'm rooting for him to be able to control it. I wish that I believed that he could have a whiskey or two with dinner and stop at that... but, over time, that seems unlikely to me. We'll see.

So, who knows what the future holds for him... and all I know is that, whatever it is, I just wish him contentment. In my observation, his natural (sober) state isn't happy go lucky... but that doesn't mean (I think/hope) that he can't be happy. I just wish him the best because, for all his complications and complexities, he sure seems like someone who deserves it! :)

Elizabeth, my apologies. You did say "no name"! I just made the (wrong) assumption that you thought that was me too. Sorry for the confusion. :)

Thanks, Christy. Yeah, I hope we get do get a live interview soon, too. I sure miss him!

Wow, Elizabeth, I guess both those rambling "psychic Kiefer love interpreter" posts were yours.

Screech much?

ever think that, i dont know, K and S are in a grown up relationship and/or don't want all the nasty / goofy press that comes along with open public displays of affection? maybe that Kiefer had enough of that after all the other feeding the press did off his life and who are now probably hoping for more snce he got out jail and she respects his wishes? OR.... DUHHH... have you considered she's been around a year for a reason. i didn't see you answer any of the comments I made about the fact she's been there for him before and after some rough times.

you dont know and you care too much in a weird way.

She dumped her husband of less than 2 years for Kiefer, even though they had to get married in Morrocco as NYC was not special. I guess her husband wasn't special either. Ugh! He'll be out partying sooner or later and she won't be there to "monitor" him as it looks like she has been doing thus far.

I wonder if he feels obliged to stay with her since her husband divorced her because of their relationship. Ick!

She's all over it when the camera is around.....I guess she couldn't get the publicity she wanted with her ex.

Don't we all love these brave critical and know nothing posts from anonymous, jealous, junior high school hags? If they split up tomorrow, he still doesn't know who you are; he won't be calling you to come get him through life, and the bottom line is you know nothing and wont admit it. ignorance is angry bliss. GROW UP.

Dear Kirsti... when do you graduate and will the popular girls not invite you to their party? prove your accusing question with... like you know... uh with... like facts. GROW UP.

Oh, are you no name,Maven? Kool, Nice to meet ya!
And to answer your comment,sorry i missed it.
Do you have proof she was with there for him, before and after? Nope, just like we really know nothing! None of us! And the press thing, It's his life, wheather he likes it or not! If he's so upset with it, then maybe he should go and rodeo somewhere again so he can't be found again!!
And if she's been there for a year, where was she the night he got busted?

No prob, Christy!
This place is full of confusion!!
Love it!

Apparently "Maven in FL" is the girlfriend's publicist.

Lol! Maybe she's not "Maven in FL" but "Siobhan in NY".....

hey, Elizabeth, since youre psychic, I would have though you didn't need a name.

As to the other junk you asked Sib's been photographed with K since August last year. she's been seen with him publicly more since he was released and, since well, she's got a carrer of her own, maybe they are grown ups who don't need to be together all the time to have a realtionship.

Heres the diff, little girlfriends, you are trashing her and dont know squat but youre own infantile guesses and i'm just pointing out that you don't know. so... if you are the kind of person who trashes people when you don't know them, just because youre obssessed with a guy youll never meet, that says a whole lot about you more than me trashing you for your attitude or those anonymous cowards for theirs. haven't done that growin' up yet, I see. Oh, and when you have, you'll realize what a screech you've been.

Maven - you're priceless! You give me the laugh of my life!!

Maven, What grsde are you in?
Your ranting is so silly! Screech? sheesh, give me a break!
I would love to know how well you know Sib!
THis is for our opinions and i'm not changing mine because you are a very hyper person that,In my opinion, thinks she knows everything!
If you do, give it up girl!! we're all interested!!

heck i ask you what grade your in and i can't even spell grade!! LOL!

Please stop fighting. A picture speaks a thousand words. As she was walking down the streets of NY was she humming the tune to Pretty Woman in her head, the hooker part, from the waist down of course. Look at the pics of them having lunch on Benny's site. KS is leaving with the silver tray (check) in his hand and she is fighting behind him trying to push his chair in so she can get out of the corner in her killer heels. KS is smiling for the first time, his real smile!!
Man, her feet were probably killing her by the time they walked back to 10th street. The pic showed just how much KS was into her. No RESPECT! What happen to Taxi Service in NY? (laugh) What a show!
I will end by asking whether you think Kiefer is dressing a bit gay lately or is she dressing him gay? I would hate to be watching a gay Jack Bauer when I'm so Straight. What a waste!
Posted by Tishjeans

Tishjeans, I hereby award you the prize for the most ugliness in a single post.

This has been a crazy subject for awhile now. Regardless of how they look in pics, pics can certainly be deceiving, i certainly wish him the very best, if he decides to marry Siobhan. I hope she doesn't take him for a ride, or maybe he should sign a pre-nup before geting married again.I just think he's going to fast with alot of things in his life right now. doing a movie, then 24 trying to get his shit together for the sake of his image. If being around Sib is an image thing for him or her, which I'm getting the feeling it could possibly be this, Maybe he should just live with her for awhile. It takes more than a year of being around someone to really get to know each other. I learned that by going through a divorce. I dated my 2nd husband for 3 1/2 years before marrying him. I learned that from my first mistake (husband). He was finally his real self after 5 years.. I am not trying to tear Kiefer or Siobhan down in any way. I am not a miserable, jealous person.

This has been a crazy subject for awhile now. Regardless of how they look in pics, pics can certainly be deceiving, i certainly wish him the very best, if he decides to marry Siobhan. I hope she doesn't take him for a ride, or maybe he should sign a pre-nup before geting married again.I just think he's going to fast with alot of things in his life right now. doing a movie, then 24 trying to get his shit together for the sake of his image. If being around Sib is an image thing for him or her, which I'm getting the feeling it could possibly be this, Maybe he should just live with her for awhile. It takes more than a year of being around someone to really get to know each other. I learned that by going through a divorce. I dated my 2nd husband for 3 1/2 years before marrying him. I learned that from my first mistake (husband). He was finally his real self after 5 years.. I am not trying to tear Kiefer or Siobhan down in any way. I am not a miserable, jealous person.

someone ask for vid? go to:

dazia24.altervista.org

their new rendezvous just this month (21 June)

With all these pics of SB where is the real love of K,s life. Do you realize that not 1 pic has been posted of K and his daughter being together since he got out of jail. The hell with BS, his daughter has been through everything with K then anyone else. BS just wants a magazine of her own from him. What he needs to do is patch things up with his daughter before he can move on. The Pics should be taking with her Dad and his new dog together, not BS. If BS really cared for KS she would move on and leave them alone. What daughter wants another strange woman around during this time. He must be really screwed up, taking fake pics with that woman. I would feel a shame if he was my Dad & totally embarrass. I thank God my Dad would never hurt or embarrass me the way he did with his girl. Is money and image all he cares about. How selfish! Get help with being a father first before taking a 3rd wife. She must have cried her eyes out alone when her Dad went to JAIL. BS back off and leave them alone please! You are trash if you can't understand a father and daughter relationship. The same for his PR's. Get his shit together. What a spoiled rich brat he turned out to be.
Posted by Marie

So, Marie, you know all the nitty-gritty details of Kiefer's relationship with his daughter, how he and she together worked through his DUI/jail term, how she feels about his relationship with Siobhan, etc HOW exactly?

You do realize that the actual portion of his life and their lives represented by the photographs we see of him (whether he's alone or with anyone) is a teeny, tiny fraction of the entirety of his/their lives, right?

p.s. she "wants a magazine of her own" from him? Huh? Where are you getting that from? (Well, I know... from the same place that you're getting all your other inside information. ;))

The idea that she's "moved on" from her ex-husband to Kiefer because she's after Kiefer's money demonstrates a lack of understanding of what the net worth of someone in her ex's financial position likely is vs Kiefer's. They're both wealthy men but, in terms of solid net worth, there's little doubt that her ex is worth far more... and his earning power isn't subject to the rollercoaster ups & downs of an acting career like Kiefer's is. Nor is he, so far as we know, pouring a lot of money into a side business as Kiefer is with Ironworks.

Whatever the reasons why her marriage broke up and whatever the reasons that she and Kiefer are together, it's extraordarily unlikely that it had anything to do with "trading up" financially.

Oh my! This is what i know, sib did have a serious boyfriend before David,who she quickly dumped and move up the ladder with david. when she started dating kiefer in july....he did not know she was still very married and living with david. in early sept,he asked her to attend a public event and she told him the truth. the romance was stalled. kiefer went back to la, where he resarted a fling with a quiet vet. there. Meanwhile david had found out about the affair and he and sib seperated in oct, he filed for a divorced in november. Which was granted in december. at this point kiefer was in jail. his other romance never goes very far because she hates the drinks,fame and the smoking. when he was released in jan, went to vist his daughter in nyc, and got re hooked up with sib. How do i know this? my cousin works at allure. while i cant give her name,she has heard most of this from other staffers. SB is not a sweet,lovely lady unless the cameras are on her. most of the people i know think she is the source of the marriage rumors. the most real photo of them is the one in phone store in nyc. that is him numb, and in daze, and her real personality shows. im not saying they arent a good lookin pair,and they may be in love..altough it sure dosent look like it,on his part. but she is most certainly in love with his fame,money and the press. you can belevie me or not..but thats what i know.

by the way christy, i think kiefer since 24 is way ahead of david..in the money dept. not to even consider the hollywood fame.this is a step up the ladder.

tara, you may be telling the truth as you've heard it/believe it, but...

If so, that Siobhan's an awfully chatty schemer... not to mention a psychic one. Otherwise, interesting that she'd know to describe the woman Kiefer may've had a fling with in the fall in the exact same way that she's been described on other internet sites. That's where your story gets a little iffy-sounding.

Kiefer was spotted more than once near the Allure offices in the late fall, which doesn't quite match your timeline either. (Not that he necessarily was there to see her, but it casts the "the re-hooked up in January" part into doubt.)

As for him being "dazed" in the photo in the Apple store... either that or he's just... listening. :) Also, though I know that any number of people believe you can see as clear as day that he's not interested in her, I've gotta say that I (and any number of people) can't see that so clearly.

To Anonymous (or tara, if that's you... I couldn't tell) - with his big 24 contract and all his executive producer residuals, etc, Kiefer's a very wealthy guy. But the owner of a modeling agency as big as DNA is *very* likely a whole lot wealthier. If Siobhan's goal is a Hollywood future, wouldn't she be manipulating Kiefer into a lot more high-profile LA sightings? Rather, they've barely been sighted there at all... and both times they were, she wasn't dressed-up or made-up. Evidently, she's both a chatty schemer and ultimately a rather ineffective one.

Also, it seems to me that she got a late start on her golddigging career; I would've expected her to have started working her way up the ladder when she was much younger if, in fact, that was her goal.

Look, I don't know. She may be a horrible person. I'm just saying that all the "evidence" to that effect that I'm reading on this and other sites isn't, to me, convincing proof of that.

convincing proof of that.

back from GA for this stuff... GAG!

well, except for Christy, the psychic, jealous, ignorant shrew-bitch count here is pretty high!!

shouldn't you skreech's be working for the government like Jack Bauer if YOU do know this much from a couple of photos, especially you Marie, since you also know the details of his relationship with his daughter, oh and what affect Sib has had on it. Kiefer would be disgusted if he met you and knew you were spouting this crap. it's insulting to him as a parent and a human beng and says more about the defects of YOUR person that you would imagine this crap. No one would want you for a daughter anyway, especially not a class act like Kiefer. SICKENING.

god, it must be so nice to be you... and know everthing about someone from a couple of pictures.

you're no fan of Kiefer's.. except in your own sick world.

& to Tara; do you honestly think anyone believes you about your mother working at allure? it's the internet. proof baby, proof. i can say i'm the Presidnt's wife if i want...

Sell it so someone else. youre no fan either, just another white-coat and net target.

To all of you big experts:

The SS Kiefer is not pulling into any of your ports... so GET OVER IT. The BS in this situation is what you're spouting. Sounds like all of you would rather have him be miserable without your gorgeus presence in his life thn be with someone else whos all that youre not: rich, beautful, succesful, and with KS. She gets to go home w/ him when theyre togethr and not you. Get over it.

What a bunch of jealous, immature skanks.

hey, just thought i would point out that david has 2 partners in owning the agency and a article on him nd them ran in vogue. they claimed his networth was 50 mil. i think kiefers is more than that. im not saying nything about the lady, or his love life. I just hope he really stops the drinking !

1.Kiefer's drinking will ultimately be the demise of any relationship he has.
2. David B. has been known to scout the bars for young models.
Take what you want from those 2 facts.

1.Kiefer's drinking will ultimately be the demise of any relationship he has.
2. David B. has been known to scout the bars for young models.
Take what you want from those 2 facts.
June 27, 2008 7:51 AM
Posted by: Tammy

Dear Know-Nothing Tammy... care to explain all the coupls who have coped with alcoholism over the course of long and othrwise happy marriages. what an infantile & ignorant person you are. you obviously have no life or life experience.

ANOTHER SHRIEKING PSYCHIC JUDGEMENTAL SHREW.

Oh... & PS tammy: what I took from your "facts" was that youre an idiot on the whole subjct.

Why all the shit about SB? Kiefer been with lots of woman and engaged to many and married 2 times. How many times did you hear reported he was in love? How many times have we hear his friends say he is happy with this one, plenty! KS always told people in interviews that he never displays the ones he loves the most. His Daughter, wife Kelly and other children of course. He was married to her for 12 yrs and we never really seen that many photos of any of them, Kelly always stood in the back ground at events. He protects their privately because he loves them. He loved Kelly very, very much. Rolling Stones Mag. He was with Kelly in April 2007 and their divorce and KS jail time must have been very very hard on them both. She was his best friend, he said in RS Mag. He has never lived with another woman because he was to hard to live with. He likes long distance relationships with Kelly, Bisson (Canada), Trica (NY) that girl in Iceland etc. (This is just my opinion Kiefer does not like any woman on top of him). The rest I wrote were his words on interviews. That should answer your questions about SB. Listen to his interviews Christy and Maven thats proof right there. And the DVD to "I Trust You To Kill Me" he talked about it also. You both are very demeaning. I would not be a bit surprise that Christy and Maven is SB. Very devious if you are. Both of you(SB) Pay Attention: (It means listen) You are way out of control and protesting to much to be anyone but SB. Tara, Marie, Tammy, Karen and the rest, I really respect listening to your opinions. Thanks for the Infor.

posted by Bflywithme

Dear Whoever you are... Yeah, this is SB. I have been in FL and then in GA the last few days and in have time while screwing Kief (i DO get to be on top unlike what you think - he's so little cept where it counts, but then you'll never know). yeah, i'm Sib, and I have time to argue with irrational shrews. if nothing else proves you dont know anything, this post does.

When *I* rely on you to answer my question about KS, it'll be after i have a traumatic head injury. get over your pathetic self. your making nothing more than guesses and whoever Christy is and i we are are saying is tht we dont know.

regardless. you're a huge fool. usually on the internet people come on and make up lies about sleeping with celebs and you do it for me saying i'm boinking KS!

the only thing funnier is respecting the opinions of the other morons here. Thanks for the LAUGH.

Maven in FL- Sorry, I just been to Japan and back and when I was there I saw KS and Rocco staying in the same hotel room together. True or False? There you go again calling ALL of us Morons. Always calling people names. Is that what you did in grade school. You are the moron here and a sick one. Your assignment for today is to read the articles on KieferRocks website and watch Jay Leno's interviews with KS. I'm not going to do your homework for you. As far as KS liking someone on top. He might also like it from behind. Who Knows for sure. So stop being nasty to everyone. We can all do that! You still do not know how to listen or read. I said, he does not like a woman on top of him; meaning in his way. When the truth hurts, that person usually responds in anger. And you are still protesting too much not to be her. You need to take a course in "Anger Management". Again devious! You are always on with Christy, every 2 hrs. You both need a Life or SB does. After all she only gets to share a teeny/tiny/weeny part of Kiefer's.
Post by: Bflywithme

Bflywithme, ignoring all your nastiness because, speaking for myself *only* (since I am myself only... not Siobhan... not Maven in FL... not anyone but myself), I think it's possible to disagree with people without being nasty to them (and my opinion on that subject goes for people I agree with and people I disagree with)... just want to say that it wouldn't surprise me at all if it were true that Kiefer and Rocco stayed in the same hotel room in Japan. In my observation, Kiefer's a complex and complicated and multi-faceted-in-all ways guy.

In other news, I'm not sure why you would leap to the conclusion that anyone who disagrees with the belief that it's possible to know everything about Siobhan and/or Kiefer and Siobhan's relationship based on a photographs and rumors *is* Siobhan. People simply perceive the world differently. For example, I've read/seen every interview that you've mentioned and the conclusions I've drawn from them don't, in most cases, agree with yours. That doesn't mean I'm Siobhan. It just means that we interpret available information differently.

Going back to Tammy's post... I can make guesses as to what you're inferring by juxtaposing an observation about Kiefer's drinking with one about David searching for young models in bars but, since I know basically nothing about David, I'll just leave that at guessing. Re: Kiefer's drinking, though, I do suspect that it - along with the highly-sexualized nature of his drunkenness - has been extremely tough, to put it mildly, on his attempts at relationships.

Maven in FL - sure, marriages survive alcoholism but, imo/experience, when it's active (and, though I haven't experienced this, especially, I'd expect, when it spurs infidelity), it's extraordinarily difficult to live with.

imo/observation, his relationship with alcohol is the single most problematic aspect of his life.

Though I included it, my signature isn't showing on the post above. (I've noticed that that sometimes happens on this site and It may appear later... as also sometimes happens.) In any case, it's me. :)

Maven in FL- Sorry, I just been to Japan and back and when I was there I saw KS and Rocco staying in the same hotel room together. True or False? There you go again calling ALL of us Morons. Always calling people names. Is that what you did in grade school. You are the moron here and a sick one. Your assignment for today is to read the articles on KieferRocks website and watch Jay Leno's interviews with KS. I'm not going to do your homework for you. As far as KS liking someone on top. He might also like it from behind. Who Knows for sure. So stop being nasty to everyone. We can all do that! You still do not know how to listen or read. I said, he does not like a woman on top of him; meaning in his way. When the truth hurts, that person usually responds in anger. And you are still protesting too much not to be her. You need to take a course in "Anger Management". Again devious! You are always on with Christy, every 2 hrs. You both need a Life or SB does. After all she only gets to share a teeny/tiny/weeny part of Kiefer's.
Post by: Bflywithme

Yeah... Siobhan. HAH... I'm also Jesus!

is any of that dreck you're offring supposed to mean anything... Oh and i guess since kiefer was now in a hotel room w/ rocco he was gay?? is that your latest excuse for why he's not on top of you. what a riot you are... thanks for the total laugh - both you and what youre spouting HAHAHHAHAHAHAHA. made my day. great job...

How can anyone beleive that Kiefer Sutherland is a class act. Here is a ugly fact. There is this special person that you love very very much. He joins the Military, to service his country, goes through basic training, gets shipped overseas, saves a person life and recieves "The Medal of Honor", comes home for a break, is out jogging to stay in shape for when he goes back, gets hit by a drunk driver from behind, is throw 50 feet in the air, his body comes crashing down to earth. The drunk drive is alive but the one you love is gone. We became big fans of 24 not realizing that Kiefer Sutherland is a drunk and gets a DUI, Not one but 2 others and we wonder how many times he has done this without getting caught. The Judge gives him 2 separate sentences. KS is allow to pick the time. He decides to do his time during his break of 24 (PR's say he will do anything to save 24, whatever it was).He gets off easy with only 48 days. You read he gave up his Birthday, Christmas and The New Year. What they did not tell you was, his daughter has college break at that time. This way she can go home and not hear the ugly things drunk drives families can say. That was a good thing of course, she is the innocent one here after all. Her mother probably requested this. Then the fans beleive that KS is a Hero giving up his holidays. He gets Fan mail but what happen to the Hate mail. His PR's believe that a letter like this is hate mail and throw them in the trash of course. To emotional for there Star to read. These are letters of passion not hate. We want DUI drivers off the road. We are trying to save another love ones life, maybe his daughters or someone you love. Will MR KS get it after 20 yrs of drinking and partying. He has a bodyguard to protect him from this passionate & real stuff. He thinks by having a new girlfriend, new dog, new clothes, new phone etc, it will make him feel better about himself. He is only looking good so he can get is licenses back and maybe next time kill someone. He will really bring ugliness to his family because he does not care, neither do his PR's. They know who butters their bread. Penny & Sue read everything about KS. Lets see how much they care about KS and his Fans. Are they PR's? The guy needs tough love in his life. Do you believe he is going to AA GROUP meeting or private ones? Do I want SS Kiefer sailing into my port, do I wish my daughter had him for a father (Hell No), Is he still a class act or Hero now? This is for my son Dean, who is Our true HERO & we miss and love him so much. This is posted by his father who also was in the Navy and serviced his country as a Police Officer for 36 years with Honor. Need Proof, I have it. Will the service men and woman and government members still watch or care about 24 now? Where is their Honor! Shame on them! Help save a Life and get Drunk Drivers of the road, you could be next. This post is for ALL Drunk Drivers. Jack

Thank you for your post and for putting it all in perspective. I'm sorry for your loss and thank your son for his service. Your words were 100% true.

The other part of my post got cut off.
He has a bodyguard to protect him from the real Stuff. He has a new girlfriend, new dog, new clothes etc, he thinks these new items will make him feel good about himself. This shows that KS just does not get it and neither does his PR's. Will they get it when he gets his licenses back and kills someone. Do you beleive KS would attend AA Group meetings or a Private ones? This post is for my son Dean who we love and miss very much. He is Our True HERO. I was in the Navy and serviced 36 yrs as a Police Officer for my country with Honor. Do I want SS Kiefer sailing into my port, do I wish he was the father to my beautiful daughter (HELL NO), is he a class act now. Will other service men and woman and government members still think he is cool or want his vote? Will they still watch 24? Where is there Honor? Shame on them! Penny and Sue's web site reads everything about KS. I know they will read this but will they post it on there web page for all of his fans to see? Are they his PR's too. If they really care for KS they will post this because what KS needs is What we call Tough Love. He is not getting this from his family or this would not have continued for 20 yrs. We are just trying to keep Drunk Drivers off the roads and save maybe your love ones life. Yes this is ugliness and we hope you are never affected with it. Please think of our Son Dean and the Hero he was. Need Proof, I have it. His loving Father Jack.

Thank you Tammy. Your words are making me cry. And it feels good to cry, knowing I'm right about posting this. It was hard. Thanks a million times. Jack

to whomever you are posting about your sons death... if- if - if this is true, i'm sorry but you have no rational reason to make kiefer a public scapegoat of some sort because of his drinking problem. everyting youre saying here is meaningles for your son and Kiefer.

it's up to him to deal with his drinking problem - posts on the internet aren't going to mean squat. you don't have any way to reach him or "fix" him like this.

IF this isn't true, god help you - it's irational to dump all this on a celeb and maybe the person who needs addction help is you. you've never been near the man, youre not in his life and youve got no reason to make these superweird publc announcemnts. if he stops drinking and sends you a "thank you" note i'll apologize..

Jack, I'm tremendously sorry for your loss.

I think that your attack on Kiefer here is fairly irrational, but I understand that grief can have that effect.

I don't think anyone here is defending the practice of drunk driving or that Kiefer ever has or would either.

Again, my sympathies on your loss.

Christy thanks for trying to understand but we were fans of 24-we just can't watch it again. This awareness is to all drunk drivers,they kill.Close people in his life knew he had a problem for 20 yrs. Where were they the night he left the party? He has money to hire a driver or call a taxi,41 yrs & knows the law. NO Excuses. I wish that he could feel our grief or read some letters privately with victims like us. We want to help him realize, it could be his owe or him laying there. We just want to save his life too. Next time he will go to prison for a long time or get life in Prison if he kills someone. Drinking & Driving kills Christy it is NO accident. I'm sure he is sorry but they all are. I just read he was drinking again but with a driver. God! I just want to cry for him. Thanks so much Christy for your sympathy. If you know him, anyone, save him. He always seem like a nice guy on interveiws. Thanks! Jack "For Our Dean"

Jack, this is Tishjeans. Christy gave me the ugliness award. I'm sorry for the ugliness that came into your life. You are a proud father and I honor you and your son. When I first got my licenses, I was speeding alot, couldn't seem to focus on my driving and speed. I got a speeding ticket/my dad made me pay for the Ticket/Insurance. He took me to a funeral where a young girl killed herself by speeding. I remember walking in/seeing a large picture of a pretty girl on top of the Close casket. We know what that means, don't we Jack. My Dad said, baby I don't want you to be that person or kill anyone. We both cried together that night/I couldn't drive for 2 days. My friends say I drive like a old lady. This is the same as drinking and driving. Right Jack? I still remember. Thanks Dad! SS Kiefer should have his driver, drive him into that port. He sets a fine example for his daughter. I feel sorry for them. This is ugliness Christy. I will help at my end Jack. All the best Sir Jack.

Jack, again, my deepest condolences on your loss. I know that the loss of your dear son is a sorrow that will never leave you.

If I had it in my power to wave a magic wand and make the problems of drunk driving (and, as it applies in the specific case and in general, alcoholism) disappear, I *certainly* would do it. I very VERY much wish that was possible.

Since it's not, I agree with you that it's extraordinarily important for people to continue to get the word out about how it's *never* acceptable to drive drunk.

That said, I think that you're imagining people making excuses for drunk driving here (and in general) that people aren't actually making. imo, there really is a difference between being able to extend forgiveness in a situation like this and excusing the behavior.

The bottomline, though, is that I completely understand your sorrow and your anger and I wish you and your loved ones whatever peace with that you're able to find.

Again, my deepest sympathies are with you.

Tishjeans, I think that what your dad said was very smart and my compliments to him for thinking to do that and to you for, hopefully, once and for all getting the message about careless driving.

That said, no, I don't think that a teenager's heedlessness necessarily is a one-to-one comparator for the extremely complicated issue of alcoholism (and other substance addiction) as it relates to drunk (or otherwise impaired) driving. Would that it were so easy.

... and, just as an aside, that you would even THINK to mention/compare the ugliness that I perceived in your nasty personal attack on a woman you don't know who happens to be spending time (of whatever type) with an actor you don't know (to be clear, none of us do) with the heartbreaking, forever life altering horror of someone losing a child in a horrible and preventable accident is, to me, further proof that there's something ugly (or, at the very least, tremendously immature) going on at your core.

jack... i'm sorry if your son did die (i mean its the internet, this could be tru or no, right?) but its silly to say that it has anything to do with Keifer driving drunk. i think the reason i can't totaly believe that youre telling the truth is that using Kiefer for a scapegoat is just irrational. it just makes me think you have some other thing against him snce it makes no sense. it doesn't matter what KS can afford or not, he's got an ILLNESS called alcoholism; its got nothing to do with anybody else being dead unless he drives drinking again and kill them. your point is pointless. Leave him alone and whether or not you watch 24 is just... geez.

Even if you do have a dead child, going on a message board and going on about Kiefer doesn't really achieve much for him, does it. Are you hoping to make people not watch 24 because of your kid, not gonna happen. Find a real way to make a diffrence if this is for real. KS has nothung to do with this.

Jack is just saying that not only should KS stop drinking and driving but all of us. He just feels betrayed because 24 brought KS into their home not realizing that he is a heavy drinker and partier. He also said that KS seem like a nice guy. Just wants someone to help him. We all hope KS is going to make it and others like him. If someone like Jack does not send messages like this out, where would we all be. Tishjeans post was just as brilliant. I will keep their message in mind for my children. Sometimes we all say such petty things but this came from the heart. Its called reality. Pt by Bflywithme.

For heaven's sake, no one is arguing that anyone, including Kiefer, SHOULD drive drunk. So, while I feel extreme sympathy for his loss, I don't really get what you mean by "If someone like Jack does not send message like this out, where would we all be."

Um, where we'd all be is that, if anyone out there is *in favor* of drunk driving or thinks it's a good thing, they need their heads (and hearts) examined.

Are you saying you were unaware that driving drunk was a bad thing until Jack posted? I hope not.

As for "feeling betrayed because 24 brought KS into their home not realizing that he is a heavy drinker and partier," that's frankly ridiculous (and I'm not even sure that's what Jack is saying). Like many people who do all kinds of jobs, Kiefer has a substance abuse problem. There's no "betrayal" in him doing his job (which is acting) while at the same time being an alcoholic.

I had a cousin who was in a convertible car with some other kids that were drinking. They were going so fast that the car went airborne over a bridge and through electrical wires. You can image the rest. It was devastating. Will you claim my story is untrue too Maven?
What about the story of KS being at the Whiskey Go Go Bar, drinking again and with a new girlfriend right after a AA meeting. Is this story also untrue Maven? There are other places on the internet that post messages about things like this happening Maven, not just on X17. KS doesn't have a large fan base anyway, it very small. KS screws up fine examples like Brad Pitt who is trying to make a differents in Hollywood. BP can hold his head up high for his kids. A Fact- 24 is just a TV show, it can be turned off. In memory of Judy.

What happened to your cousin was horrible and I'm so sorry.

... and the rest of your post is, well, kind of irrational. What does the size of Kiefer's fanbase have to do with this discussion? And of course 24 is just a TV show and can be turned off. I don't understand what that has to do with this discussion either.

I'd love to know where you heard that he was at an AA meeting before going to the Whiskey A Go Go last Saturday night. In any case, even if that were true, so? Alcoholics go to AA meetings and then drink all the time. That, among other reasons/symptoms, is because they're... alcoholics.

He didn't drive and that is what he can't do when he's drunk (or at all right now for that matter). Whether or not you or I or anyone else believes that he'd be better off not drinking is irrelevant to the question of whether or not he drives drunk.

Bottomline, if you don't want to watch 24 because Kiefer got a DUI (or for any other reason), that's of course entirely your right. None of which changes the fact that Kiefer, like a whole lot of people in this world, appears to have a severe problem with alcohol *or* that, of course, he must NOT drive drunk... which is true of everyone.

Ack, this site is so weird with its disappearing & reappearing signature lines. My signature's not showing up on the post above right this second (though it'll probably be back later), but it's me... Christy.

i finally figured this site out. Save for a few OBVIOUS rational posts -the rest of you are crack pots.

Flywithme... 24 did NOT betray ANYONE. That kiefer has a substance abuse problem is an extremely well known situation. he's even been arrested before. The people who hired him to play jack bauer knew the hell out of that.

whatever's happened in your or someone ELSE'S personal life - blaming the hiring staff of a TV show, expecting a "tv character" or an actor to be your scapegoat, and ranting about it on the internet are just signs of lunacy and some silly, pointless, irratoinal agenda.

Try blaming the people directly involved who deserve it( if there are any and all this has happned) and having them take some responsibility... including yourselves if you deserve it.

GROW UP... KS has nothing to do w/ your problems.

This is my first attempt at being part of a conversation. I love Kiefer Sutherland and I think he's the greatest actor I've ever seen. His personal life is all over the internet, he has not private life. I love him!!
Patricia

Hi Patricia.

I agree with you that Kiefer is a tremendously talented actor! :)

Actually, compared to some other celebrities and if you think about how much guessing goes on about what really is or isn't going on in his life, I think he lives pretty much under the media radar most of the time... which I think it great for him! :)

Hope your 4th was safe & pleasant. We had a fire behind my house & the fire dept. couldn't get back there to put it out, they had to use my hose! scarey!!
We also had an illegal rocket misfire and come straight at us at my daughters
house. We had to jump out of it's way. It started a fire 10 feet from our chairs. I've never seen it so bad!! Kiefer said in "I trust you to kill me"
that he tries to keep his private life
private. I can't imagine what he and others go through!! Kiefer has given us
6 years of his life doing "24". He is amazing & very pleasant to look at!!

Kiefer is another Rock Hudson/Tom Cruise? I get it now! I didn't know he was married for 12 yrs. What woman would stay with Badass KS for 12. Marriage of Convenience cause he is gay. She divorces him to cash in on all his lovely money after he goes to jail, just encase his career goes down the tubes. How smart is she? Did he marry his 1st for citizenship? What kind of LURE is on his hook for SB? No wonder Julia flew! Come out of the closet, Elton John did. Product:Kiefer Sutherland! Warranty:Damaged Goods!Customer:"I trust you to return my money". 24-It's time to kill off KS. New acting rolls- A Drunk & A Gay. That's Hollywood- DAMN IT! DAMN IT!

Hey, Patricia. I had a quiet and lazy 4th of July. It was great! Yours had more going on - some of it scary! Hope all is well now. Yep, I think that Kiefer's a great actor *and* very pleasant to look at too! :D

KS, did you get the 4-year degree at the School of Ignorance or did you just go for the 2-year certificate program?

Good grief. Jump to (incorrect) conclusions much?

He didn't marry his first wife for citizenship because... guess what? He's not a citizen. Strike One.

He and his second wife were separated for almost nine years before they divorced. No one but them knows why they didn't finalize the divorce sooner, but there's less than zero evidence that she "divorced him for his money after he went to jail." He was the one who filed for divorce, by the way... and many years ago. Strike Two.

He's not gay, which isn't to say that his sexuality, like much about him, may not be complex. Who really knows... and not that your simple-mindedness could comprehend it if it was. But it's demonstrably verifiable that he's not gay. Not that it would matter at all if he was in terms of anything but who he keeps company with in his private life. Strike Three.

... and you're out. Thank you for playing. Well, no... not really.

Why would anyone who isn't a fan be here
on this site? Are you that bored that
you have to invent negative things to say about such an incredible man? If you have all your fingers on one hand you will find that Sarah was born 5 months after they got married. I think
that's pretty noble!! Now days, they don't even bother with the moral high ground. Kiefer was a very good hockey player and was on the rodeo circuit for
3 or 4 years. He has a few scars from fights. That isn't a gay man's style.
Regardless of his sexual preferences, I'm sure you would be the last person he would even say hello to!!
Yes, everything here is fine. No more
fires! I'm here in Las Vegas and we have high smoke from the California fires. I'm glad Kiefer's place is not
in a fire-prone location!!

Hi Patricia! great to see you here and I like your style... them facts things sure are hard to argue with, aren't they. Don't worry about the idiots like KS.... they're here to offer themselvves as target practice for ignoramus season so that we can all keep sharp.

glad to see your posts and i love kiefer, too. I think he's the most brilliant actor going. He deserves to be in some classy stuff on the big screen. he's as good or better than anyone on the A-list now. i want to see him win Oscars to go with his Emmy.

Good morning Maven,
I soooo agree. I worked 2 jobs while I raised my kids alone. I missed Kiefer in "real time". I just saw "24" for the first time in June of 2006. I was so amazed at his talent that I've been buying his movies as often as I can. Each movie is a different character. I get lost in them!!I don't know how one man can be so different in appearance & substance. I hate to see him die in so many though! I would like to know which site would be the best to get current information on his appearances on TV. Do you have "a go to site" to get that information. Kiefer was awarded "the Hollywood Walk of Fame Star", do you know if he has actually put his hands in the concrete on Hollywood Blvd yet?

No, he will not recieve the Award because he committed a crime, lost his licenses, went to jail & is on 5 yrs probation for Drinking & Driving. Besides how will this great and wonderful Actor get there? WALK!!! Kiefers PR's hire computer geeks to watch his site. Poor baby Kiefer does not know how to response. No computer skills. And now, we are finding out he might be GAY. The seed has been planted. I willn't buy any of his products either. 3 strikes your out is a term for jailbirds like Kiefer's. 3 strikes, your out and the game is over is baseball. 9 inning in baseball you geek. I hit the ball out of the Ball Park, it lands in shit up to your neck. Go Retrieve it!

Wow, you're a fine specimen of humanity, aren't you?

Kiefer will receive his star on the Hollywood Walk of Fame some time in the next 3-1/2 or so years. There's a five year window to schedule the event after the announcement and, iirc, his announcement was about a year and a half ago.

His DUI arrest and jail time will have absolutely no effect on the Hollywood Walk of Fame star.

The rest of your ranting is unworthy of response... other than to reiterate what an ignorant and ugly piece of work you are.

Patricia, earlier I posted something that included links to a couple of sites - one to keep up on Kiefer's appearances on TV (like when movies he's in are airing, etc) and the other that's a great source of Kiefer news in general. The post required moderator approval (probably because of the links). If it doesn't show up eventually, I'll come back and give you the scoop on what to Google.

Christy, thank you! Do we know if this "luni" is a man or woman? I can't believe anyone could be so hateful!! I assume "it" was talking to me--therefore, I will respond. Some of my best friends are gay! My second job for 2.5 years was as a cashier in a gay nite club. Nice nice people!! I think your "male testosterone" is showing it's ugly head!! Concerning Kiefer's computer skills: I'll trade one of his dreamy smiles for all the computer skills you think you have!! Someone suggested that we use you for "target practice", will, I own a Remington 870 shotgun, a Browning 308 rifle and a Smith & Wesson 22 target pistol, also 2 bows, one of which is strung at 50 lbs for big game hunting. As you can see, I can defend myself--I can also hit a ball out of the park, I've even knocked out the right center statium lights. I have won tournaments in softball, volleyball, soccer, basketball, tennis, table tennis, racquetball, horseshoes, swimming, bowling and many other sports!
So don't f'k with me. Pull up your pants and go home!!You aren't worth my anger! I would like to address the DUI but it will take too much space--maybe next time!!
Christy, I get local listings for his movies but I didn't know about that Corner Gas piece until after it was over! I have since found it online. My mom likes Kiefer also but these computer screens are just too small for her to see well--by the way, I'm 62 and a mother of 3 and grandmother of 5. Thanks again for your help

Patricia, I don't know whether this person is male or female. I just know that, whatever s/he is, s/he is ignorant and ugly and his/her ignorance isn't worth our energy. :)

To find Kiefer-on-TV listings, Google "Kiefer Sutherland TV Listings" and the second thing that pops up in the list is a link to a site where you'll find his listings. You may need to set your timezone and cable provider.

To find out about Kiefer news in general, including things like upcoming talk show appearances, Corner Gas-like appearances, etc, Google "Kiefer-Rocks". The first listing that comes up is "Kiefer Sutherland Fan Site".

To find great collections of Kiefer photos, Google "kieferbenny", "dazia" and "pennykeating".

Good luck and let me know if you have any questions.

imo, you and your mom have great taste! :)

Thanks Christy--most of my family loves Kiefer. My 11 year old granddaughter won the Gymcanna rodeo events here in Nv. for 2007. She roped her first calf a few months ago.(My daugher also rides). She loves "Lost Boys" My oldest granddaughter ice skates, runs track in school and plays the guitar & piano. She and her brother both like Kiefer Sutherland movies. Speaking of which, season 6 episode 17 is on right now in Texas, we get it later in the evening. It's a really great show. I have it on DVD & VCR and I still watch it on TV. It's the finalle of the main story line. Kiefer is under the garbage truck and saves the "Nukes" --great show!! Thanks again for your help!! I've got to get some housework done, I really got wrapped up in this discussion today.
Talk to you soon!!

Boy, enjoyed that baseball game that anonymous played out. Patricia is a very poor loser! Can't be from the USA and not know how to play baseball. She is a computer geek like Maven and Christy. They sound like a AD in a magazine selling Kiefer Sutherland. I only buy things "MADE IN THE USA". I prefer a MP5...M16...AK47 myself. I would not go Big Game Hunting for bear with anything less then a Compound bow 75lb pull. 50lb is for small bunny rabbits. I don't know, can a woman still f'k at 62, sounds old to me. Dreaming it might be Kiefer, only in your dreams. He can't even do it with a young woman. Sick old lady. My best friend is gay, but he never hid in a closet like Kiefer. Hateful Geeks! posted by: The USA

Wow, USA -i was going to say commerial. So cool USA

I come 2 X17 2 get the scoop on the stars. The 3 geeks/sound like 3 friends in their 60's/who need 2 ask their kids 2 help them set up email. Its easy.
Next..KS MIGHT be gay/their were rumors 3 yrs ago about him & Rocco. I was surprise 2 see him w/a girl but no emotions there. I was nuts over Lance Bass/I bought his items/he announced he was gay/I had a bonfire in my backyard. Its ok 2 like the shows/movies theyr'e in. They pretend on shows/pretend in real life/we'll never no who they really R. Live & Learn! Don't waste $$$$ on them. I think I'll wait 4 Mirrors 2 come out on DVD/cheaper 2 rent/now that I have the scoop on KS. Ellen was brave 2 come out being gay/she gave us a choice 2 like her or not. Thanks fans/X-fans.

Patricia, my advice is... don't respond. :)

Talk about a "geek", there are no bear anywhere close to where I live. We hunt deer! You're a very sick person and I won't respond to anymore of your rants.
Christy, do you know if they have started filming "24" episode 9? I read that they were going to be filming till the end of the year. I sure hope that other strike doesn't happen. I taped "The Wild" the other day. That is really a cute show. My 11 year old granddaughter stayed with me last night and she fell asleep watching it. Listening to Kiefer's voice without watching him was a"strange" sinsation. As far as Kiefer and his lady friend, the pictures that I've seen don't show much emotion of any kind--I did notice that Kiefer walked "street-side" most of the time. Chivalry is still important to some! I also noticed that the streets of New York are in bad shape!

They're likely shooting episodes 13 & 14 of season 7 right now, Patricia... and, based on their normal shooting schedules (and if there's no strike), they'll be shooting well into October to finish the season.

Even if there's a strike and even if it lasts through the end of this year (which strike length I think would be *very* unlikely), 24 should be okay in terms of s7. If there's a strike and they have to stop shooting, they could start airing the season in January as planned and finish shooting episodes while the season is running (which is what they do every year when there's no strike).

I love The Wild! Very cute. :)

... and, yes, I love Kiefer's natural chivalry too. It's adorable!

Christy- because they have more time, do you think they are taking it a little easier--8 to 10 hour days with week ends off? I'm close enough to go to LA. Do you have any knowledge about a contact person or phone #; I'd like to go watch the taping? I thought he was going to be on "American Idol Gives Back" so I took off work-spent $100 for a room for 2 days, drove over 600 miles, $100 in gas, $100 for a ticket---but he wasn't there in person, I was so disappointed!!This time, I want to make sure of my facts!! The money, drive & time would have been nothing if I could have seen him in person--even from the 2nd balcony!!There comes a time in everyone's life when there is very little to look forward to--I was sure looking forward to that trip!!! I was totally amazed with the KODAK Theatre!! The lighting for that show was incredible. The theatre was maybe 8 stories high and the lighting came down from everywhere!!

At least so far as I understand it, they'll be continuing with their normal shooting schedule (i.e., they shoot an episode pair basically every three weeks). Though they have more time, I doubt they have any additional budget with which to stretch the shooting schedule. Everyone who's on the show comments on what an extremely efficient machine it is... so, heck, it might be harder for them to slow that down and spread it out than it for them to keep doing it like they always have done it. ;)

Sorry to hear that you went Kiefer-less at Idol Gives Back. Hope you enjoyed your trip anyway, but that must've been disappointing.

The show's shooting set is closed and there's no way of knowing when/where they'll be shooting on location in advance so I'm afraid there's no way to plan a trip to watch them shoot. It would be wonderful to watch them work, wouldn't it? Oh well! :)

Christy, thanks for the info. That's really a "bummer". The trip to Hollywood was special. It was my first. It's a very old city now!! The buildings are looking their age. To see the streets made famous in movies and songs was kind of emotional. I drove to where I thought Kiefer's home was, but, I felt like I was "invading his privacy" so I turned around and came home. I didn't see any sites--but I was within a few blocks of Kiefer's home and that made the trip worth it!!I know that sounds CORNY, but maybe not to a Kiefer Sutherland fan!! I've seen some of the taping of Mirrors so I have some idea of how it works. I have never given it any thought concerning how close the camera's are or how many times they must repeat a scene. It's truly amazing how much hard work it is. I'm glad Kiefer and other actors chose to be on that side of the camera. Life would be so boring without them!!

The person who wrote about Lance Bass...Your perspective of Hollywood is 100%. Don't support their Drug/Drinking habits. We work harder then they do, buy something that will last longer then their careers. Their shit only goes out on the trash or to a yard sale. Rent DVD's at Shop Rite 1$ a night. USA...way to go man. You know your gun power better then Gay-Jack Bauer. Need some missiles. HA HA. Those 60 yr old woman or geeks do sound like a AD. The 60 yr olds are humiliating themselves wanting to follow KS. Like he will notice them. Go to a Bar ladies you will find the same thing there & alot cheaper. "Do not Litter keep America clean of Hollywood".

Christy, my work week starts tomorrow so I probably won't be on this site for a while. I thought it would be fun to swap stories about Kiefer's movies and which ones everyone likes the best & what scenes are the best--but I guess that's not going to happen

Patricia, you should check out the Fox 24 forum board. Google "Fox 24" and choose the first hit in the list. When you get to the site, click on 'Board' and then scroll down to the "Kiefer Sutherland/Jack Bauer" folder and you'll find thread after thread talking about Kiefer movies and all kinds of stuff.

Have a good work week!

Dear USA... funny you got such probs w/ someone gay since youre ablt to type w/ yr head up yr ass, i figured that'd be a thing you liked. up yours you 0bviously enjoy it.... the biggest critics always do, right Sen Craig?

Maven--love your frankness!!
Christy--change of plans. I went to fix a sprinkler line late last night and that's not the problem. I've been digging since daylight. I'm sure it's the main sprinkler line from the street.
Goin' be a chore. I've had to turn the water on to trace the leak--anyway, in between letting the water dry up I watched " I trust You to Kill Me" and Season Five between 6 & 8 pm. Some of Kiefer's most fastastic drama in#5; in real life he is so excited about going to Europe with the band--To be able to be that fantastic when his heart is packing is incredible--check it out! Thanks for the info. I'll go there. I really enjoy our chats but I've never been one for gosip. I've been a Payroll bookkeeper for most of my working years and we tend to be "not talkative" Take care to all the Kiefer fans and "bad thoughts" to the others!!
Goodbye!

THE 60'S CHRISTY/MAVEN/PATRICIA,YOU STILL SOUND LIKE A AD THAT YOU'LL FIND IN A LURE MAGAZINE/SELLING US KIEFER SUTHERLAND PRODUCTS. I WONDER IF THAT MAGAZINE IS GETTING A 1% PROFIT IN TRYING TO SELL HIM OR IF HER BOSS KNOWS SHE IS SELLING OTHER PRODUCTS BESIDES THEIR OWN. I LIKE GAY PEOPLE BUT NOT THE ONES WHO HIDE. KS IS GAY/SIOBHAN BONNOURIER ALSO CAN BE GAY. SEEMS LIKE NO ONE THOUGHT OF THIS!! THAT PROBABLY WHY HER HUSBAND GOT THE DIVORCE SO... FAST. SHE LOOKS LIKE A BIG MAN NEXT TO MIDGET KIEFER. HER SIDEVIEW PHOTOS SHOW A HORRIBLE NOSE/HER EYESBROWS, NEED TO BE DONE OVER. WHATEVER HAPPEN TO "GRAY IS THE NEW BLACK" SHE WORE BLACK IN EVERY PIC. A LURE SHOULD PRACTICE WHAT THEY PREACH. FOR THE USA..GO MAN! BONFIRE GIRL..WISH I WAS THERE..GREAT! THANKS FOR THE TIP FOR RENTING 1$ DVD'S. PEOPLE AGAINST DUI'S..I HEAR YOU! 3 IDIOTS GEEKS WHO ARE NOT FROM THE USA.. YOUR POISONOUS ADS CAN GO INTO THE RECYLING BIN.

H-E-L-L-O Paticia! Now we know she is not from the USA. She did not see BRAD PITT at "AMERICAN IDOL GIVES BACK". What are you nuts, talking about the "LIGHTING" in the theatre! A True A-List, American Idol there. The biggest star there, lending his "WATTAGE" to the event, whose sheer presence caused such a uproar, filming had come to a halt until the crowd calmed down. He was there to Represent, His People..."The United States of America". Thee American Idol! And you didn't mention him!!!
Kiefer Sutherland was a big disappointment to Canada & his fans in the USA. You really didn't expect him to show his face in public did you, being a EX-CON. The crowd would have BOOED...HIM. They gave him a 2 second spot behind the scene to read one sentence. He was probably too DRUNK to read more then that. He became too involved with himself. I willn't go into what could of happen (its in the above comments). He had his PR's apologize for him. When KS, himself apologizes to the public (USA) like a man then I will forgive him & maybe others will follow.
You wasted your time & money at American Idol. Why didn't you "Give Back" to the REAL people that need it. KS has enough money that he spends on his drinking habits.
Jesus "LIGHTING". Patricia you are a disgrace to this country. You & your guns should be deported to SING-SING! You should SHUT YOUR MOUTH! You only bring shame to him & his family by thinking you can advertise for him. He is the only person that can ERASE the shame.
Good Luck to...Brad Pitt/Angelina/his family!!

SING-SING is Lying. To see Brad Pitt in person is to DIE FOR!

As the 3 geeks or SB were advertising Kiefer Sutherland they also insulted Brad Pitt.Did she forget how Brad works so hard in New Orleans/side by side with REAL people building homes. She was bragging about how hard it must be for K.Sutherland to work behind the camera/with his trailer to nap in/being waited on/he does not work 10 hrs straight and he is making millions on 24. OH MY! Did she realize she also INSULTED the REAL men/women who work at CTU/other Branches of Government who protect us/by putting their life on the line every single day/some even taking a real bullet/they earn nothing compared to K Sutherland. They are the Real Workers. How Shallow/disrespectful this person is for not know what is REAL.
The WATTAGE has just dimmed for 24 here! BeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeP

I never hear of Allure mag. it must be for 60+ woman. Her clock is ticking at her job and she is on the move for her next target. A rich Man to keep her! People in the fashion world are looking for fresh younger ideas, she is getting to old for it & she knows her career will be over soon.

My sister works in the fashion circles of NYC. She said that the woman are real nice to your face but if you come up with a great creative idea and the boss wants to use it, then the CLAWS come out and they want to back you into a corner. She told them that Jersey Girls do not waste their time with claws or messing up their manicures, they just bring out their FIST(laugh.) NYC woman are devious, they will stab you in the back in a New York minute. They do know, not to cross a Jersey Girl because we can be very vicious when it comes to protecting what is ours. I hope someone is guarding Kiefer's daughters back.
For the Jersey Girls!

I also worked in NYC and came face to face with the ones climbing the ladder, they do devious shit behind every ones back because they are chicken shit. I would not put it pass Siob. Bonn. being the 3 geeks on this site because that's the way people like her work in NYC. She would actually Google herself and answer by pretending to be someone else or 3 different people. (Got to watch the ones with 3 different personalities. Don't they kill?). Yes, this woman has been around the block many many many times. Now, she is doing it with KS. NEED PROOF! Look at the HUGE BUNION on her left foot.(laugh) She can barely walk. My 86yr. old grandmom has one and they can't operate because she is to fragile. If this woman wants to continue to walk those blocks many many more times she better have it fixed before she gets to old. Maybe in the next year, her clock is ticking. (laugh)

It may seem that Kiefer has finally seen the light about Siobhan. Rumour is they have broken up..Apparantly she bad mouthed Kiefers daughter Sarah and started the rumours that they were getting married.. If it is true I hope he has shown her the door..he deserves better than some Gold digger..

Thanks for the info. Kiefer loves his daughter, he is going to be very protective of her, who wouldn't be in his position. It's common sense not to get his daughter involved or introduce her to every Jane he goes out with. Why would SB bad mouth Kiefers daughter? That Bitch! Maybe SB wanted to meet Sarah and Sarah said, NO WAY! SMART GIRL. Maybe SB wants to cash in on some of Sarah's inheritance money. I'm glad someone is guarding his daughters back.

Why would Kiefer want to marry again and have someone take his money, if it does not work out? Is he NUTS! Angelina & Brad live together and it seems to be working out. Someone should inform Kiefer, that you do not have to get married to prove anything. He can't be that stupid! REALLY! I hope he KICKS her out the door..Or maybe someone should kick him and wake him up.

So, you folks are taking the Globe (which is where those rumors originated), well-known "source" of all kinds of randomly made-up stuff, as the real deal.

Interesting.

Of course, people who believed that Kiefer and Siobhan were getting married just because a tabloid said so would, I guess, be prone to believe the Globe too.

It's kind of surprising, though, that people who are brilliantly gifted enough to know *exactly* what the motives of a person they've never met are (I mean, that really IS quite a skill) also are thinking-challenged enough not to recognize that tabloids make stuff up. Always have. Always will.

Well, Kief and Sib havent been seen together for a few weeks now and he hooked up with Darla Gordon a couple of weeks ago who hes been dating on and off. Lets see what happens in the next week or so if Siobhan appears with him again, but I have the feeling hes moved on from her.

Looks like one of the geeks are back or could it be SB, trying to defend her actions.
People at Kiefer's end put the marriage rumors to rest, really fast! It looks like most of us on this site knew Kiefer would not marry her. Seens like we know Kiefer PRETTY GOOD.
How do you know I'm not a good friend of his daughter? Her friends use the internet too. SB would be the last person Kiefer would tell his secrets to because of a thing called TRUST. Their are people out there who know SB too & they love to talk. Alot of the talk is not great about her. You don't know shit Christy! Poor Woman! Get over it.
Many times the tabloids are right too!

You're funny. In a really really sad kind of way.

Kiefer's ex-wife Kelly is beautiful! What does he see in this dog? She looks like the wicket witch of the East, she wears black, black, black and more black. Probably a black heart to go along with the clothes. What a ugly nose. Needs a face & dress make over. You need someone beautiful, young and fun with a sweet heart on your arm again Kiefer. Look for someone with a beautiful sexy dress on with some bright life in the color. She is so BIG and OLD and she'll make you feel the same way Kiefer.

I dont think hes with her anymore...?
Its been a while since she was last seen with him.
He's recently been dating other dark haired beauties around LA as far as Ive heard...

Hello Amanda, where have you heard about that ? Sorry, I'm curious ...There's a recent sighting of Kiefer with a dark haired woman and nothing tells us she's not her. Perhaps, they desire for more privacy ? who knows ?
I don't know Siobhan but i can read here and in other places, a lot of bad things about her. Why ? jealously ? she's a very beautiful woman (an ugly nose ? what ?) and a former model.
Is there someone here who really knows her ?
Have a nice day !
Big kisses from France!

Its not confirmed they broke up but the fact that he 'dropped' off a dark haired woman in LA doesnt sound like Siobhan for some reason considering she lives in NY. Its funny that they've gone from been seen together almost every weekend to virtually nothing... Perhaps it is a desire for more privacy, but something's not clicking for me. Darla Gordon is also dark haired and shes from LA , so is a vet or nurse he casually sees on and off. so who Knows, .. we havent seen Siobhan after he was seen with Darla a few weeks back ... and hes been to a few public events the last week or so and no Siobhan on his arm and before Darla she went everywhere with him ...NY, LA, London and South Africa,.. so to me it strange that shes suddenly vanished from sight... but Im waiting to see if she appears with him again..

Kiefer is unable to stay with just one woman for long. He lives in a world where temptation is just too great with women throwing themselves at him...I dont believe hes seeing just one woman. I bet he has a well used little black book!

ok thanks for your answer Amanda ...it's true that he has been to a few public events without her... those last weeks.

I heard that she and Kiefer have moved in together in NYC. Anyone else hear that or have information? I heard a place in the West Village.

It's not Kiefer who is moving on, but his ex-wife Kelly. She is clocking out and selling everything to get her 1/2 of the money due her after being in a NO sex marriage for 12 yrs. She needs to clock out because people are now picking up on his gay activities/she wants the money promised to her/He was getting too careless/If the truth does get out she will not get her big pay off. Her 2 boys are getting older, she needs to move on.
Kiefer has not renewed his contract for 24/They want to see how his movie goes/24/his career may be over.Stop being in denial people. Rocco is KS love. The studio was for him. He just goes to NYC to see his daughter/SB is a friend who also might be gay/he gets beauty products from her. The vet girl Janet takes care of his animals/Darla Gordon is related to Howard Gordon they are friends. Its not hard for KS to get a girl for a event or two when he needs them. His career will be over if this gets out/his people will deny it or cover for him. After all, they will be out of work too. Look at his Pics, he is happier kissing a guy in public then a girl. No emotions with BS at all. Kiefer does seem like a nice guy but alot of gays are.

Kiefer has not been with any woman or lived with one since he met Rocco in 2002. He has gone to events with his agent or bodyguard. The other woman he is seen with are to stupid to get it. He uses them, maybe SB too(like you said she could be gay).
The Studio Cave was also built in 2002. He follows Rocco all over the world. I bet they enjoyed that hot tub together at the studio. Kiefer has enough money now to build Rocco a bigger one. He showers Rocco with more affection then he did walking SB across the street.
My guy would hold my hand or put his arm on my back.
Watch "I Trust You To Kill Me" DVD to figure it out for yourselves. Kiefer's tatoo should read "I Trust You To Love Me" Rocco.
Now that I'm thinking of all of this, was Kiefer in a relationship with that rodeo guy John English. He and Kelly broke up at that time. Maybe she found out he was gay then. Lots of gay people have children. I WONDER! I WONDER! It can be true. Does anyone else Wonder?

OH! Veronique..Who would be jealous of SB, NO one! If you said Carrie Underwood or Angelina now that's someone to be jealous of. If SB modeled it was when she was very young and looks change as you get older and not all models are beautifully. SB is just a ordinary person and I know many who are more attracted and have wonderful careers. Millions of models are out there. She is a nobody compared to Kiefer. XOXO right back to you love!

Post by: Ann

Anomoynous - Kiefer lives in LA where he is currently busy shooting 24. She lives in NY. Not to say that she cant move to LA but she has a career in NY. I think Kiefer does have an apartment in the West Village when he stays in NY. But I dont think he'll move there permantly.

yes, i think too if she is living in his appart now. Why put the Kiefer address on 411.com ? She would be so stupid !? i don't think so.

Im not sure about Siobhan either? I mean I have nothing against her. I dont know her to do so. But with Kiefer they never really looked 'together' when the y are together. You would think if You had a new girlfriend you would hold her hand as you walk down the street or show some kind of affection. I dont see that with them. The body language shows them more like friends than anything else. Ive seen pics of Kiefer showing more affection in public with other woman than he has with Siobhan.

It certainly is odd. Its been over a month since she was last seen with Kiefer. He took Michael as his date to The Espy awards!.
One would at least think of seeing her out to dinner or lunch with Kiefer in all this time. We can only guess if they're still together or not, but only time will tell.

I dont think shes Gay! She likes Men with Money!.. but he could Bi sexual.. I heard he once tried to Kiss a man in a bar when he was drunk and the guy shoved him away.
Maybe with Siobhan, hes realized the lack of spark between them ( at least that how it seems in pics of them) and moved on.

Looks like Kiefer's Ex-wife Kelly is calling the shots now and threw KS out on his ass from the Studio. The man is a cheater! He cheated on his 1st wife (Sarah mother) with Julia Roberts, then cheats on Julia with a bar dancer, then he cheats on his 2nd wife with this woman from NY in July 07 and then went public with this woman from NY who walks the streets dressed like a hooker after he gets out of Jail. How embarrassing for Kelly & her 2 boys & daughter. KS should not be around children, he sets a very bad example. Not a very good father Role Model for any Kid. Glad she finally divorced him & is taking him to the cleaners for her half.
KS will probably stay in LA working to keep the next woman or man (maybe Rocco) in his life. Its in his nature to cheat and you can not change a person nature or if he is gay.
Andy Dick likes it both ways (his proud to tell everyone) and he is friends with Kiefer Sutherland. I could believe KS also likes it both ways. He really does like Rocco. FREAKY

Kiefer has been seen with a woman in LA last week in West Hollywood. No pics but she could be Siobhan, the man who saw her describes her as "gorgeous" and there's also a sighting with a dark haired woman from Saturday.
Difficult to know... After all she was with him in Africa, and we have no pics.
Tara, do you have any other info about this relationship ? thanks in advance.

What woman in West Hollywood? I didn't see that anywhere. I only saw that some bikers saw him with a dark haired woman on Sunset Blvd. on Saturday.

Some guy spotted Kiefer with a Hottie, Shorter, brown hair woman, more up top, a month ago in scrubs at a Burger place on Balboa St. He said it was not the one from NY. The biker could mean Janet the Vet. She must be the Hottie. Also other guys described her as a hottie before.

No guy would ever describe SB as gorgeous, she is old enough to be there mother & way to old for guys to call a hottie.

Has to be the vet. Would love to see some pics of her but people said she does not like the spot light and Kiefer really cared alot for her before he went to jail. Both have a love for horses. Kiefer must be back with her again.

Thanks, I had not heard about the Balboa St sighting.Do you remember where you read that? As for the vet, I thought she was supposed to be a rather busty woman, and the biker guy I think said the hottie was small chested. I have a really hard time thinking Siobhan could be the one the bikers saw. According to their description she had a very thin see through top on and they could clearly see her nipples. I know Siobhan has gone braless in the past, but never where you could actually see her breasts. I am having a hard time envisioning Kiefer dropping her off dressed like that on Sunset Blvd with a mob of bikers watching her. Seems an odd way to behave with the woman you supposedly love. But hey, what do I know? Maybe that's how things are done these days. Boy am I out of the loop! haha

Yes and the vet lives in West Hollywood near where Kiefer works on 24. And I heard the same thing about this guy calling her a hottie at a Chili Dog Place. She was seen a lot of times early last summer with Kiefer. Heard that he wanted to marry her but she stopped seeing him because of his drinking. She also wouldn't go to any of the events with him.
Your right, no guy would call SB a hottie and she does not have that sex appeal that guys go for, she is too old & hard looking.
Must be the Vet or someone else!

Posted by: Tina

the sighting on Balboa was more than one month ago ... the one from west hollywood is from a guy, Tim Vincent, he saw them in a shopping center.(source : Sky magazine).

Tina's "the vet lives in West Hollywood near where Kiefer works on 24" sums up the likely truth of any of this "information".

24 doesn't shoot in West Hollywood.

You people don't know what's up with Kiefer's personal life no matter how much you wish you did.

Rumors.. Kiefer is selling everything to pay his ex-wife 1/2 her share and he is moving things to his ranch that he kept.

No. Kiefer and Kelly were separated for almost 9 years. He's made fistfuls of money *and* purchased IW (through a trust at that) since then. His recent assets, including IW, aren't part of their "community property."

As for where he's moving, I have no idea, but it's not to his once upon a time ranch. It was sold right before he and Kelly first separated in 1999 (which I'm pretty sure means that proceeds from that sale would've been part of their community property and so she was entitled to half of that). That sale is a part of the public record (and is mentioned in the articles about IW being for sale).

Yes, they separated in 1999 and sold the house in Hancock Park, the ranch they sub-divided into 2 and KS kept his half. She bought a house in Canada & Kiefer bought one just around the corner from her because he wanted to get back together. He reproposed to Kelly Thanksgiving 2001, they sold both homes in Canada and moved to Beverly Hills, he brought the Studio in 2002 and the house in Sherman Oaks 2003. She had him file for a divorce in 2004 because he cheated on her again with his drinking but he never went through with anything. He was only worth 3.5 M in 04. They sold the home in Beverly Hills, she bought the house in Toluca Lake. He lived at the other places, they shared the ranch for her horses too. He might have mills./he puts alot of mills out too. They had an on again & off again relationship after that. She is the one who SENT him the divorce papers Oct. 2007 after he got his 2nd DUI. She pulled the plug on him this time. Maybe for business reasons who knows, but it is not because of SB. I do know they still care for one another. Kiefer just has a bad problem. In Ca. the law is she gets 1/2 after 10 yrs. and for cheating maybe more. She had a good lawyer.

wow !! So, Kiefer was with Catherine Bisson, a sort of an on-off relationship from 2002 to the end of 2007 and with Kelly in the same time. And during this time, he had been seen with other women like Tricia, Reiko or the Golf one.
You mean Kelly is a very comprehensive wife and she have shared her husband with Catherine...or those women.
About Siobhan, you can't say it's over with her cause that's you want. Maybe, he has strong feelings for her and who knows time will tell.
Because, he doesn't smile on the pictures with her, he is sad...If he's not fine with her why does he stay with her?
I mean kiefer is not the kind of man to waste his time with a woman he doesn't like... There are so many women who would like to be with him, so he has too much to choose from...
When he was with Catherine, people were not very nice too...She is "anorexic", "ugly", "not smiling" bla bla ...Now, it's Siobhan's tour...

Sorry, it's Siobhan 's turn.

Anonymous, you've alllmost (but not quite) done a good job of pulling together publicly available information to develop what alllmost (but not quite) scans as a believable story about Kiefer and Kelly's history.

But... no.

Unlike you, I don't claim to know details of the ins and outs of Kiefer and Kelly's entire history, but your tale is fraught with factual errors and/or your own misinterpretations of the publicly available information you've used to construct it.

The speculative part I would tend to agree with is that Kiefer and Kelly certainly may still care about one another - in the way that people who loved one another very much at one time do - and that, whatever else has gone on between them, his drinking and associated unfaithfulness very likely may've been what made it impossible for them to make a go of it.

But, by MUCH available evidence, the realization that they weren't going to work as a couple happened for them quite some time ago.

In terms of things that I can speak to with factual authority (as opposed to in any way speculating about)... no, you don't "get half in California after 10 years." The community property law kicks in on the first day of marriage, BUT it also ends at the point of legal separation.

My signature isn't showing up in the post above (as sometimes happens on this site)... so, in case, it never does... that was me, Christy.

I think it's safe to say that most people posting here (including myself) know nothing for certain about Kiefer's lovelife. But, I am sure it's possible that there may be someone who has posted here who has some inside knowledge. There's just no way for any of us to know exactly who that may be. So, in light of that, can't we all just agree that most of us are sure about very little? LOL
As for Ms Siobhan, my gut feeling is that he is not with her anymore. Even though there may be inconsistancies about the various sightings, clearly something is happening that wasn't happening 3 months ago. We have literally no word or pics of them together in over a month now, and all of a sudden he is being sighted with various women. Regardless of what he may or may not be doing with them, it is different than what was happening from April thru June. Just something to chew on.

It's certainly possible that there may be people posting here with actual "inside" information.

However, when people post as if they have inside information and, in the very same posts, make errors about and/or misinterpretations of publicly available information, they throw everything else they've said in their posts into a questionable light. If they truly know inside information and wish to convey it in a way that discerning readers are likely to believe, they'd probably do well to avoid easily identifiable factual errors, wouldn't you agree? :)

As for Kiefer and Siobhan, I have no idea... and, as you say, that's true of the vast majority of folks here, I'm sure! It's certainly true that there hasn't been a photograph of them together since late June. That said, he's been working in each of the weekends during that period (well, except the July 4th weekend, when he wasn't spotted anywhere, so far as I've read anyway).

So, who knows... but time, as is its way, no doubt will tell. :)

Stop getting so excited Christy. The post was about Kiefer's relationship with Kelly and their divorce settlement. SB had nothing to do with why KS & Kelly got divorced. You are the one to bring SB up all the time. We DO NOT care about her. She is just another girlfriend, like Catherine, Tricia, Janet, Jennifer etc:

KS did go with Catherine Bisson but stop seeing her and went back to Kelly. He did repropose to her in 2001 Thanksgiving. Check out the Photo's with him with his wedding band on. It was in the news paper in Canada when they were selling there houses. He just never follow through with his divorce in 04 & it really is not any of your bussiness. He & Kelly had on/off relationship. He & Kelly loved one another, she knows all Kiefer's secrets, they were best friends & he was always working on his marriage. He was with Kelly again in April 07. Stop putting their marriage down. Kiefer was the one with the problem not Kelly. He would be the first to say that. Kelly was the one who had enough & pulled the plug when he got his 2nd DUI. We were always hoping the best for them.
I stand by what I said!!!

You say like a very greedy person Christy claiming Kiefer has fistful of money. When he bought the Studio in 02 and of 04 he had 3.5M to his name and that is not alot for an actor. He has 2 ex-wives to support/a daughter/her education/her career. Now a divorce settlement. He brings in Millions but Millions go out in his world. If his career fails his money can very easy disappear too. Is that all you care about??
His biggest worry is his career because he is not getting any younger. He is also thinking of his daughters career because she might graduate this coming year. He is in NY probably to help her with her internship, he does have a Production Company to help her. SB is the last thing on Kiefer's mind. Theirs more to Kiefer then his girlfriends. Kiefer will be in Pocono,Pa for the Races Aug. 3 & 1:00 ESPN Nascar Racing serving as Grand Marshal "Gentlemen Start Your Engines"

Ah, Anonymous, I think it's you who's getting excited. :)

(The posts timestamped 2:35pm and 2:38pm aren't from me and anyone who took the time to observe the difference between one person's writing style and another person's writing style easily could see that. The ones timestamped 3:02pm, 3:05pm and 3:57pm are from me.)

In any case, anyone reading what I've actually posted knows that I didn't say anything negative about Kelly and that, in fact, I've never said anything about Siobhan other than that I don't know her (and, so, can't judge her) and that I don't know what is or isn't going on between her and Kiefer.

The rest of your ranting is incoherent and demonstrates an inability to successfully interpret publicly available information (which it's clear from your posts is all you have access to).

p.s. If you can point me to a photo of Kiefer wearing a wedding ring in real life (that is, not as Jack Bauer) in 2001, please do. Thanks.

Sorry Christy I thought it was you going on about SB & his money because the post all came together at the same time. Show me papers where they were legally separated. People reported that they were because they were not living together. He dropped Catherine/went back to Canada/bought the house around the corner,to get back with Kelly. It is in the Canada news paper/on BBenny web site 2001. He proposed when he took Kelly on a Romance holiday to Las Vegas at Thanksgiving time 01 or 02. He is wearing a ring on some web sites and at the Golden Globes and IT'S NOT A JACK BAUCER MOMENT, don't no exact year. They were also in Romania together when he was doing MIRRORS. Kelly was Kiefer's Rock. Whenever he messed up, she would pick him up & put him back on that rock again. He never had anyone else he could trust but her. It seems like Catherine and Tricia did not mine sharing either. Do not believe everything you read about his lovelife. Kelly did a lot for Kiefer, even when they were not together. You don't hear Kiefer complaining about the settlement. She also has Kelly Sutherland on the Studio email. Seems Kiefer does not mine her still using his last name. Usually when Keifer disappears he is with Kelly. Sorry, but I was always hoping for a Fairy Tale Ending for them. It's not over yet!!

Fairy Tale, you mean FAIRY! I'm still going with the assumption that kiefer Sutherland is gay and his wife waited for the big pay off because it would seem he had no money in 2004. The woman are just a FRONT. no woman would put up with the shit he has done, she was in it for the MONEY. Find Rocco and you will find Kief hiding.

Kiefer is SCAREY!! Saw Pics of Kiefer's Iron Works.

Who needs MIRRORS when their are self Images of himself all over that place.

No wife-No daughter, just himself.

NO MIRRORS in his house, who is he kidding: Their's a MIRROR bigger then life, right across from the tub.

Guy is not into looking at any girls... he's to busy loving himself & likes doing it in private.

Does he actually sleep with all these girls? You have PROOF!!!

Get over him girls. HE IS GAY & A LIAR!
CREEPY KIEFER....

Y'know, Anonymous Poster Who "Hates" Kiefer, just because he didn't want you doesn't mean he doesn't want any woman. Just sayin'. Also... protest too much much? ;)

Anonymous Poster Who Wants Kelly & Kiefer To Be Together - you're clearly very invested in that (now officially over) relationship and that's fine. I'm certainly not going to argue with you that you shouldn't want them to be together some day (even as I very much doubt that's ever going to happen), but just wanted to say... that ring that you're referring to isn't his wedding ring. That's a signet-like ring that he's worn off and on for many years. (You can get a really good look at it in the movie The Cowboy Way.) I have never seen a photograph of him wearing a wedding ring (as himself rather than a character) in all the years since he and Kelly first separated.

Oops, that last post was me. Forgot to sign it before posting.

Kiefer & Kelly were married in Canada. They separated in 1999 but not legally. He dumped Catherine B & went back to win Kelly over & bought a house around the corner in Canada. She wouldn't take him back unless he stopped drinking. At Thanksgiving he took her on a Romance Holiday to Las Vegas & repropose to her. In Jan/Feb he was on the Ryan Seacrest Show(not E).It was cute because he had his ring on & was turning it & twisting it, playing with it with a big smile on his face. He looked like a kid with a new toy. In 04 he didn't file for a divorce(that was about something else).Kiefer never ever said he was divorced. When he got his DUI in 04, Kelly broke up with him. Kiefer said, What woman(wife) wants to be with him when he acts like an asshole when he is drinking. He was back & forward with CB & Tricia after that but his drinking was getting bad so they filed for a divorce in 06. In 07 Kiefer wanted to try again with Kelly before the divorce went through (Mar-June together). Kelly called it quicks in June. After that he was
drinking/partying bad & got his DUI in Sept 07. The divorce was almost final but they held off because of him going to jail(for the kids with the Press). He went to jail at xmas when the kids had school break. When he got out they were going to announce the divorce when the kids got done school for the summer but someone informed the Press before that could happen. Someone let the Cat out of the Bag. I'm only telling everyone this because all of you are assumming it was because of SB & Kiefer wanting to get marry again. So untrue,as you found out. Kiefer didn't know SB at the time in 06. Don't care if you believe me or not. Kelly is still Kiefer's Rock. JMW

Got cut off...Kelly is still Kiefer's Rock. JMW

I honestly don't think that *anyone* is thinking that Kelly and Kiefer didn't get back together because of Siobhan.

Beyond that, you've created quite a story around your desire for Kiefer & Kelly to be together forever and, if that's what you want to do, okay.

(One thing I would say... "rocks" don't leave people at their lowest points, which is what your story purports that Kelly does. To be clear, I don't believe that's what she does; that is to say, I don't claim to know what she does. But that's kind of a weak point in your fantasy.)

But he wasn't wearing his wedding ring on Seacrest. He was wearing the signet ring. They're not the same ring.

JMW, it would seem that your facts are incredible. Thanks for the input.

Fact: Not every man wears his wedding ring.
He is wearing his ring on LEFT hand in photos and fits time frame.
I'm glad Kiefer & Kelly had some romantic times. Sounds to me that Kiefer was at his worst when he and Kelly would split up. I'm sure Kelly tried in the 12 years they were married to keep KS from drinking. She had a tough marriage. Glad to hear they were looking out for the kids.
It would seem that some people INTENTIONLY misinterprets a story when it suits them. Look at Pam and Tommy Lee's ex-marriages. I'm sure Kelly will still be there for Kiefer. It's a 14 year history with her and her 2 sons that Kiefer loves and help to raise.

Fact: Married for 12 years in Hollywood years, is like FOREVER!!
People are entitled to their fantasies, we all have them.
I'm very sure Christy has hers!!!!

Ginny, yes, everyone is entitled to his/her fantasy. Can I ask you to point me to the place where I said that JMW isn't entitled to hers. In fact, I said more than once that she is. (So, would this be a case of someone - specifically, you - interpreting facts to suit you?)

Kiefer had a wedding ring that he wore when he and Kelly were married. He also has a signet ring that he's worn through the years (beginning before he even met Kelly). My point isn't that "all married men wear wedding rings"; of course, you're correct that they don't. My point is that, if Kiefer were going to wear a ring because he and Kelly were officially back together at some point, don't you think he would've worn his his wedding ring... not a different ring? And he always wore the signet ring on his wedding ring finger, even when he wasn't married and before he met Kelly.

Also, can you point out the place where I said that I don't think that Kelly and Kiefer will be in one another's lives probably for the rest of their lives or that they don't care about one another... and mutually care about the boys? (You won't be able to find it because I didn't say it. I think that they will always be a part of one another's lives one way or another.)

All of that aside, many of JMW's "facts" are verifiably incorrect. There's nothing wrong with having a fantasy, but that's what her story about Kiefer & Kelly through the years is.

JMW you are so smart. I get the point that you were making.

Kiefer's PR's used SB as an scapegoat. SB and Kiefer were walking the streets of NYC getting pics done, when the news broke of his divorce, to draw the Press away from Kelly and the Kids in LA.

Kiefer has smart people working for him. Very Smart!! He always did protect the ones he loves.

I wonder who let the Cat out of the Bags???

No one "let the cat out of the bag." The divorce decree was filed publicly (as they are) and TMZ picked it up. Period. There was nothing more mysterious (or interesting) about it than that.

What I'd like to know is in what decade you people are living in which a divorce is such an overwhelmingly big deal that anyone needs to be "protected" from it? Kiefer and Kelly were married. They separated a long time ago (which isn't to say that they may not have tried to get back together at some point after they first separated) and, for whatever reason(s), they finally finalized the divorce this spring.

A divorce (in Hollywood or otherwise) isn't hugegantic news and there was absolutely no need to "draw the press away" from Kelly and the boys. The press cares about the celebrity him or herself; they weren't going to "go after" Kelly or the boys because Kiefer and Kelly's divorce *finally* was finalized. There was nothing to "protect" them from.

Aside from the press, do you honestly think that the boys, well aware that their mom and Kiefer have been separated now for longer than they were together, were "shocked" that they finally divorced? If so, y'all need to buy yourselves tickets to the real world. Truly!

just wondering, are he and the fashion chick still together? haven't seen or heard anything in awhile.

This is a subject thats been going on for sometime now. No one truly knows the answers to whats going on in Kiefers personal life. so lets just see what happens. One thing is certain Kiefer has just set up his own MySpace page! WOW!!

i'm guessing (ok, hoping haha) she's history. That one gives me the creeps.

It just seems so wierd that for 3 months from April 1st through June 29th or so we saw so many pictures it almost seemed odd to me and now nothing.

Doesn't mean they aren't together just seems strange.

Who knows, maybe Kiefer just wanted them to go "under the radar" as far as she was concerned as the coverage got too much for them. Although I have to admit it sure seemed like either Kiefer or Siobhan were tipping off the paps with all the sightings including her only visit during that time period to LA (very strange, to me anyway).

Well, I am sorta with JMW wishing Kelly were back in the picture. I have never been a fan of Siobhan's. Don't trust her and didn't put it past her to tip off the paps or leak stuff to the press. Notice for whatever reason all of it has stopped even the blurbs about how wonderful she was for him and how much she changed him.

Agree with Natasha, we will have to wait and see what happens but just curious.

One additional comment with regard to the 1999 separation and maybe Christy can answer but I thought it was a legal and binding separation. I mean all of that is public record and I also thought and again looking to Christy or someone for help but I thought Kiefer did in some interviews say he was divorced but maybe my memory is not working so well so I am looking for help.

Maybe Kiefer took one look at her in the Apple store a month or so ago; eyes bugging out and nostrils flaring ..and he ran for the hills! Who could blame him?????

Anonymous, you're correct that Kiefer and Kelly legally separated in 1999. The date was on the divorce papers that were publicly leaked the second time that they filed for divorce in 2004. So, while that separation wasn't an "official divorce", it did end their community property state.

I can't remember if Kiefer ever used the word "divorced" to describe himself in the years between their separation and eventual divorce (though certainly it was incorrectly reported that he was divorced many times), but he did refer to himself as single. The only time that he didn't was when he denied the rumor that he was engaged to Catherine by saying, "It would be difficult for me to be engaged because I'm still married." That was over Thanksgiving 2002 and he did go to Las Vegas with Kelly that weekend. (I think that's where LMW gets the "romance weekend/reproposal" part of the story from... and, clearly, they were together that weekend... for whatever reason(s)).

Totally agree that, unless and until there's any new information, we can't have a clue as to whether or not Kiefer and Siobhan still are together... but just wanted to add that, though there were many sets of photographs of them together, there weren't multiple blurbs about their relationship.

There was the *single* (truly... single), very clearly tabloid-created blurb, citing unnamed sources, about how good she was for him. That particular tabloid story is a staple for ANY celebrity who starts being seen with someone after he/she has had a bad incident of some kind. Truly, I think it's a template and they just fill in the blanks with the names and a few specific to the couple details.

That *single* standard tabloid-created blurb was picked up by multiple celebrity "news" sources. But it always was the very.same.item. In some cases, it was slightly reworded (because that's what these sources do), but it always was clearly traceable to that single source.

Then, when she appeared wearing a ring (for whatever reason), that single original item was updated with the speculation that they were engaged. Which, again, is absolutely commonplace when a female celebrity or a male celebrity's girlfriend wears a ring on the ring finger of her left hand.

But, again, it all came from the same original tabloid source.

The idea that there was a rush of stories coming out never was accurate. That was just celebrity "news" making its usual rounds and, for now, whether or not Kiefer and Siobhan have run their course (and who knows?), the "news" of the newness of their relationship has run its course... unless/until it really does officially go to another level.

Well, heck, that got cutoff *way* earlier than I thought it was going to. :) The rest just said that there was a single tabloid-created blurb (and a very standard tabloid-created blurb) that got picked up by multiple sources. And then that the same blurb got picked up and "updated" to say they were engaged when she was photographed wearing a ring on her ring finger. (Another very standard tabloid "story".)

But the idea that there were *multiple* stories about how she was good for him/had changed is life isn't accurate. There was a single, standard - almost 100% likely to have been made-up - tabloid "story" that got picked up by multiple sites/mags.

And there really is a difference between there being a single blurb picked up by multiple sources and there being multiple blurbs.

For now, whether or not they've actually run their course (and who knows?), they're not fresh "news"... unless/until something new really does happen in their relationship (if it even exists still). :)

Of Course the children knew about the divorce, they just did not want them in school so they would not be questioned by so-called-friends. Any parent would be conscious of there feelings & all of this with the Press was a caution step for Kelly. Kiefer kept Kelly & children in the background so people would not make a target out of them like the other so-called-girlfriends. Kiefer and his family are not just anybody. I see now, how much he always wanted to protected that part of his life.
If Kiefer said that he was divorce in a interview his children would know it was a lie. People can twist things all they like but Lets face it.. He had years to divorce her but why didn't he? There had to be something going on between them. Hopefully it was love!
There are pics of Kiefer & Kelly(K&K) on the set of 24 & them in Las Vegas together. Pics of them at the Walk of Fame in 07 & in a Romanian article or Mag. about them being in Romania together. So maybe there is something to what JMW said. Interesting info that I had no idea about with K&K.
Every thing about SB & Kiefer pics were strange to me too. Out of character for Kiefer. So maybe they did use SB as an scapegoat.

They were NEVER legally separated in 1999. They NEVER legally filed for a divorce in 2004. I said "04 was about something else".

Don't know what papers you are reading Christy, maybe something out of a trash can or the internet.

Your making everything about Kelly & Kiefer relationship sound insignificant. He would have your head for that. Its the one thing Kiefer tried so hard at, to love and protect HIS family. It's hugegantic news because this is HIS family involved, not yours. You don't live in HIS World.

Thanks to some people who feel Kiefer's & Kelly's relationship was significant. JMW

I put this out there, so some people would stop assuming, the divorce was about SB & Kiefer getting married.

Regarding the boys and the divorce... they're teenage boys going to school in Los Angeles, California in the year 2008. Chances are that half or more of their classmates have divorced parents. Many of them probably have mothers and/or fathers who've been divorced more than once.

The idea that the divorce was big news is incorrect. It wasn't. TMZ's headline was "Kiefer Sutherland's Divorce is Final. Who Knew That It Wasn't?" or something like that and, though it got a fair run around the internet and other news sources, that was about the gist of all the "coverage." The idea that kids at the boys' school cared about it one way or another is frankly absurd.

Who knows why they didn't divorce until now and, as I've said many times, I do believe that they likely will continue to be part of one another's lives in some ways... in the way that people who've cared about one another and about their kids sometimes are even after they break up (which K&K did a long time ago even if they did try at different points to reconcile).

But, doesn't your "hopefully it was love!" dream kind of breakdown around the point where they did, in fact, finally divorce. If you want to hope for their everlasting love (which is, of course, your right), now seems like the least likely time to be hoping for it... given that now, after all these years of being separated, they ARE divorced.

Everything JMW "knows" about K&K is public, whether or not she's interpreting it correctly. I (and many others) knew that Kelly and the boys were present at at least one 24 location shoot (and probably others; if I were Kiefer, I might invite my kids to come watch shooting sometimes too). Also well-known was that K&K were in Vegas together around Thanksgiving of 2002, that Kelly was rumored to have been sighted (but there are no photos) in Romania and that she was at Forest Whitaker's Walk of Fame ceremony with Kiefer in 2007. Guess what? Kelly (along with Kiefer) was a neighbor of Forest's at one point.

No one ever said that K&K aren't friends.

Forest Whitaker's Walk of Fame ceremony with Kiefer in 2007. Guess what? K&K were neighbors of Forest's at one point. Could it be that they're all... friends? ;)

Did JMW 'know" that Kelly also is thanked in the acknowledgements for the wonderful photo of Kiefer, Sarah, Michelle and Hamish in the "Hollywood Dad's" book and/or that Timothy accompanied Kiefer to the SAG awards in 2006?

If she did, I'm surprised that those facts weren't woven into her story too.

No one, including me, ever said that K&K have nothing to do with one another. They clearly have had interactions with one another's lives through all the years they've been separated. Nevertheless, they didn't get back together. Rather, they got divorced. And, personally, I just wish both of them well.

Anonymous, yes, they were legally separated in 1999. I read it on the second set of divorce papers (which, yes, were divorce papers... no matter what you say) that were made public in 2004.

What "something else" are you thinking that those papers, publicly filed as divorce papers, were about?

I can't imagine where you're getting that I make everything about Kiefer and Kelly's relationship sound "trivial." I've said, many times now, that I don't doubt that they'll continue to care about one another in the way that people who've loved one another do.

That they were a cohesive family all through the years they were separated, however, is verifiably a fantasy on your part. But, hey, you're entitled to your fantasy.

I found K&K house in Sherman Oaks on the internet google map and in the backyard in a HEART shape pool. Kiefer probably had it built for Kelly because it was purchase in 2003 just like someone on this site said. Who else would Kiefer have the pool built for with the kids going there and all. OH MY GOD how romantic is that.
I believe the person (JMW) who said they had a romantic holiday in LV in 2002 & Kiefer repropose. I wonder if Romania was just as romantic.
Kiefer does have the ring on his ring finger in the pics. Who cares about the one he had when they first married, married people change rings all the time, but people who are married always wear them on the left. He knows better.
I also beleive now, that Kiefer did not want to expose Kelly to the public and wanted to keep her all to himself. Jesus again how Romantic!!
I feel so bad that they are divorced because of his drinking. KS could have divorced her and married Catherine, Tricia or whomever the hell he wanted but he stayed hoping for Kelly. Shit, I'm tired but I'm going to say it again maybe because I'm in a Romantic mood but "HOW ROMANTIC".
JMW this is for you..Through the good times and the bad times their marriage was not insignificant. A lot of love there & we only picked up on a few romantic things. It wasn't all about his drinking problems. Best to K&K!!

SHUT UP CHRISTY! YOU GO ON & ON!
WE KNOW ALL THE SAME SHIT AS YOU DO! JMW DID NOT WANT TO REVEAL ALL THAT STUFF. IT WAS NOT IMPORTANT FOR HER TO GET HER POINT ACROSS.
YOUR JUST PISSED BECAUSE SHE KNEW IT AND YOU HAD TO LOOK IT UP. I HAVE TONS OF INFO ON KIEFER AND THERE WAS NEVER ANY PUBLIC RECORDS OF THEM FILING FOR A DIVORCE IN 2004. LIKE JMW SAID, 2004 WAS ABOUT SOMETHING ELSE AND I HAVE THAT INFORMATION. TOO BAD YOU DON'T!
YOU NEED TO CATCH UP. JMW WAS RIGHT ON!

YOU ARE SCREWING WITH THERE MARRIAGE AND MAKING IT LOOK INSIGNIFICANT ESPECIALLY REGARDING THE BOYS.

IT WOULD SEEM THE INFO YOU REALLY WANT IS REGARDING WHETHER KELLY GOT 1/2 KIEFER'S MONEY. THAT IS WHY YOU KEEP BRING UP THE SEPARATION AND 04 PAPERS. YOU ARE A GREED BITCH. ARE YOU SB? LOOKING FOR INFORMATION THAT YOU CAN NOT FIND!
SEEMS TO ME THE DIVORCE WAS A SECRET IN 06. THE PAPERS DIDN'T JUST FALL INTO TMZ LAP. SB IS PROBABLY THE ONE WHO LET THE SECRET OUT.

Christy, that was me Linda asking about the '99 separation. I thought it was a legal / binding one and thanks for clarifying.

As for Kiefer and Kelly (and you know from my posts on the other board the sympathy I felt for Kelly once the divorce was final) I am unsure of them getting back together as well since they did finally cement the divorce even though it is not impossible.

And while I am in no way judging Kelly I find it hard to believe that she would serve Kiefer divorce papers on the heels of that devastating DUI arrest. I understand "tough love" and all but still think she would have waited until he got out of jail at the very least.

Also, while I don't doubt anybody on this board really knowing Kelly and even Kiefer the thought that the problems between them were ONLY about his drinking is also hard to believe. I don't care how real or unreal ALL those ladies were it seems hard to imagine that that also was not an overriding cause for their problems. I mean Kiefer himself said so in not so many words in the Playboy 2004 interview that it was the main reason for their breakup not soon after they were married in 1996. Unless Kelly has some kind of Rose Kennedy complex I can't honestly believe that a woman would sit by with all of that going on and those are only the public ladies. There were others along the way as well, you know the one night stands and all and I do realize that much of this was due to his drinking issues but he wasn't drunk with Catherine, Tricia, Janet, Jennifer and Siobhan and probably others. His drunken excursions would only apply to the one night stands and others....

As for the 2004 papers I can't imagine what else they could be for. I mean they are public record unless cause he is a celebrity he could lie. If that is the case then seal the records. Kiefer did have his DUI in 2004 but that is also public record. One question I do have on the divorce finalized in May '08 I thought the reports (which could be wrong) stated that Kiefer filed. It is easier for me to believe that Kelly is the filer along the way and not Kiefer so maybe that is incorrect or I am reading the info incorrectly.

There is no doubt Kiefer loves Kelly and feels responsibility towards her but I am unsure it is anything else. Why would he choose to spend '05 Christmas with Rocco DeLucca and '06 Christmas with Catherine Bisson. I am sure if he asked Kelly she would have said spend those holidays with me and maybe she even did ask and he declined because he doesn't do the "family" thing.

I would ask JMW that while we already knew that Kiefer took Kelly to Romania with him, why did it go nowhere and Kiefer go crazy with drink and women shortly thereafter. Wouldn't they both have tried to wait til he got back to LA. Wouldn't Kelly at least given it that go. IMHO, this meant to me that they did try one LAST go and found that they were not going to make it work either because the "magic" in their relationship was gone or Kelly was convinced Kiefer wouldn't stop drinking even though it didn't appear he was drinking while she was with him in Romania.

And lastly, with Kiefer getting out of jail and seemingly not drinking at all or nearly as much wouldn't Kelly have waited this period out since she waited this long or did she feel she had to do this to send Kiefer a message.

While I am not a fan of Siobhan, some of you are making me have sympathy for her when you say Kiefer used her. Believe me, I don't like her and I myself believe she was tipping off the paps and yes, may have even tipped off TMZ or others about the divorce because soon after the marriage rumors (which I also believe she spread) started. But I don't believe for a second that Kiefer used her. I have much more respect for Kiefer than that. I find it imaginable that Kiefer would use anybody for anything. It's not his personality. As for Kiefer protecting Kelly and the "boys" (they are 17 and 15, not kids) he would do that no matter what the relationship status is with Kelly. Just look at how he worried and protected the 24 Krew during the period after his DUI!!

The rest of that sentence was that while I realize much was due to his drinking he was not drunk the whole time or any of the time he was with Tricia, Catherine, Jennifer, Janet and Siobhan.

And why if he felt such a connection to Kelly did he spend '05 Christmas with Rocco DeLuca and '06 Christmas with Catherine Bisson. Don't you think Kelly asked him? Kiefer married Kelly in 1996 and almost from the beginning they never acted like a family. We know that they went to Romania together and I myself thought they would reconcile but it went nowhere. Maybe that is because they realized that there was nothing left. That while he still cared for her, the magic if it were was gone because almost immediately after she left him he went back to booze and women.

Of course Kiefer loves and cares for Kelly and feels responsibility towards her and her sons (they are not "kids" as it were; they are 15 and 17 and able to handle things) but Kiefer cares about everyone in his world just look at how he worried about the 24 Krew after his DUI.

As for Siobhan, I don't like her myself as I feel she may have tipped off the paps and yes, spread the marriage rumors but some of you make me feel sympathy for her when you imply Kiefer used her. I have much more respect for Kiefer than that. I do not believe he would use her or anybody for his own gain. It's just not his personality from what I can tell.

For most of us only time will tell how this plays out. Maybe some of you are closer to the situation and see other things happening that we don't. We'll see.

With regard to my post 1:55 I apologize to everyone as I thought my first post got cut off so I repeated myself and double posted. Please ignore unless you love my posting that much, LOL!!!

Linda

I think all the photos with SB were weird too and now nothing.

I had a great laugh when I read about her being the scapegoat, that I almost sprinkled my computer with my coffee, laughing so hard. Letterman would love this:

WHAT IS SO FUNNY ABOUT SB BEING THE SCAPEGOAT, is that, all the pics of SB and Kiefer started on April 1st, YOU KNOW...APRIL FOOL'S DAY!!!!!!!!

Not only are Kiefer's PR's smart but have a great SENSE OF HUMOR. Kiefer loves being around people like that.

JMW was wishing K&K the best for their separate future, as I will. No 12 years of marriage should be criticized and taking apart by any one. They had problems in their marriage just like any one else.

This is funny too. Please, Please, give me a break, kids are at their WORST as TEENS and they DO NOT know how to handle themselves!!! I wish!! They are horrible!! Do you want my 2 TEENS Linda!
(Laughing)
Thank god they are out fishing with their Dad today. What a great great father like Kiefer. Need to be a parent to understand it!

You are judging K&K by bring up the devastating DUI & his jail time. There were NO divorce papers served at that time, it was in 06 that they secretly filed the divorce. They did wait until he got out of jail, as everyone knows.
So stop judging them and assuming you know their total history.
Playboy is being sued for twisting things around. Mags & tabloids do it all the time. This is where you are getting your info from. GOD FORBID!
Kiefer puts in 15 hr. days and works alot of weekends for the last 7 years & he has lots of time to screw all these woman, party & drink on top of it. What pill is he on?
The relationship with other woman did not work out. Why? Its simple, he did not want them.....
At x-mas in 05 he was promoting Rocco & this was his only time off 24. Japan he was promoting 24. Maybe Kelly, the boys & daughter flew to him. Were you there? In 06 he stayed home in LA for the holidays. Was he with Kelly & the kids? Again were you there?
You have know idea what he had with Kelly. So stop judging them and look at the good things they had together.

Nophia

More for Linda, They lived in Hancock Park as a family. When Kelly left and went back to Canada- Kiefer moved back with them just around the corner until he won Kelly back. Then they moved to a Mansion in Beverly Hills as a family & bought the home in Sherman Oaks. Were you living with them at the time, Sharing their bed?
Your just like Christy, jealous and trying to minimize their relationship and making it look & sound ugly.
Seems to me they had many Romantic times together and they are the things we should remember about their marriage.

It's simple, if Keifer did not like his loveless marriage he had 12 years to get out, but he stayed.

Nophia

Hi Linda. I agree with you that there may be people posting here with personal knowledge about Kiefer and/or Kiefer & Kelly, but I would bet enormous sums of money that the crazed K&K 'shipper isn't one of them. (I use the singular because I'd also bet big money that there's just one person posting. Many posting ids aside, the voice is extraordinarily similar.)

For certain, that person's (or those people's) ability to interpret publicly available info about K&K is about as well-developed as her (or their) ability to interpret other posters' statements. Which is to say, not very. Otherwise, how to explain the endless cries of "you're putting down them and their relationship!" when no one has, y'know, put them or their relationship down? ;)

If I had to guess, I'd say we're dealing with someone who's been "playing Kelly" in her head for many years now and imagining that, whenever Kiefer's not publicly visible, he's "with her." It would seem that her PretendKellySelf is okay with womanizing, but isn't particularly compassionate about drinking... just based on the points in her story when her PretendKellySelf has kicked his imaginary self to the imaginary curb.

There was one thing in your post that I wanted to ask about. You mentioned that we "know" that Kelly was in Romania. Do we know that for sure? What I remember is that someone ran across him and someone she thought was Kelly in a park and there was something about a possible photograph, but I didn't recall ever seeing a photo or reading confirmation that it was her.

I don't think it's impossible that she visited him there for part of the time. I *do* think it's very likely that they've remained friends (and, for all I know, friends with benefits). Just didn't recall a confirmation of that story and do remember several stories of Kiefer being quite alone (with in some cases some apparently hired companionship) in Romania.

the photo or reading confirmation that it was her.

It wouldn't surprise me if she did visit him for part of the time he was there. It seems very likely to me that they have remained friends (and, for all I know, friends with benefits). Just don't recall seeing that confirmed and wonder if I missed it.

What I do recall are a couple of what seemed to me to be fairly well-sourced stories of Kiefer being quite alone (and perhaps sometimes with hired companionship some of the time) in Romania.

Just as a general observation about the "K&K were together all these many years" fantasy...

Isn't it fascinating that, after taking her to many public events through the years prior to their separation, his "romantic" desire to "keep her hidden and all to himself" coincided precisely with the point at which they legally separated in 1999?!

That is, they were photographed together casually more than once through the many years after that (including being very physically affectionate at a party celebrating his Golden Globe win in early 2002 in Canada), they never attended another official event* together once they separated. What a coincidence! :)

Or not.

(* With the exception of Forest Whitaker's Walk of Fame induction which, to me, made perfect sense given that he's someone who'd be friends with both of them.)

Nophia, my understanding all along was that they filed for divorce first in 2004 and then in 2006 and both times didn't finalize for whatever reasons. I believe that's been posted on websites all along so not really a secret. When the divorce was finalized in May '08 I think TMZ reported that the papers were requested to be put through in March or April '08. JMW then came on this site and posted that Kelly sent him his divorce papers in October '07 right after his second DUI. I assumed she might be familiar with the situation and took her word; I have no reason to doubt her.

I have never heard about Kiefer suing Playboy for that article; that's news to me and I actually doubt that claim. I think that would have been reported somewhere, don't you think.

I don't know Kiefer or Kelly and I don't believe you do either. I like you, would be happy to see them together again. I agree with you if you took more time to read my post. I don't know the reasons those relationships, if you will, didn't work out and I don't know that you do either. However, times have changed for Kiefer and he may now be ready to settle down with Siobhan. For all we know she is in LA as we speak and they are seeing each other secretly (it was reported that they did this in February '08) and ready to get married or at least move in together. How would we know otherwise.

What I am trying to say is it is all just speculation if we don't actually know these people and I certainly don't claim to.

BTW, you don't need to tell me about the hours/days Kiefer works. I am a fan of his and certainly understand what he puts into his craft but to believe he never takes off, well I don't know how to answer you on that one.

All I know is we are all just stating our opinions here and don't need to be accused of all sorts of things like jealousy. It's funny but I have been accused of that on other boards for defending Kelly and go after Siobhan.

Just to reiterate, I like Kelly. I understand that she had a very tough and emotional run with Kiefer. I feel Kiefer still cares deeply for her. Whether that translates to them getting together again who knows for sure, not even Kiefer I would be will to bet!!

Christy, I will send you a PM on that other site we both post on with regard to Romania.

Linda, just one correction re: the divorce filing dates...

The first divorce papers were filed in early 2000. iirc (it could be looked up), it was about six months after their legal separation date. Kiefer actually appeared on Entertainment Tonight talking about that filing because an incorrect box got checked on the papers, which indicated that he'd asked for a restraining order against Kelly. There was some ugly publicity about that and Kiefer, who was in Hawaii filming "To End All Wars" at that time, flew back to LA to get it straightened around and appeared on Entertainment Tonight in order to clear up the confusion.

He filed for divorce the second time in 2004. Though TMZ didn't exist yet at that time, those papers were made public too. One of the tabloids even posted the case number, which meant that it was possible to check the status of the case on the LA county courts webpage.

I don't know where the thing about the 2006 filing is coming from, but it's not accurate. The May 16, 2008 final dissolution papers reference the 2004 filing. (And, though I know you didn't say this, just for the record, the papers weren't "leaked" to TMZ. TMZ scours the public record for all kinds of legal stuff related to celebrities and that's how they got it.)

You're absolutely right that it would be public if Kiefer had sued Playboy.

Thanks in advance for the PM.

Thanks in advance for the PM.

Christy, thanks for clarifying the filing dates. I thought there were two and just mixed them up. I remembered and you now bring this up (I was actually going to ask you about it in the PM) about the first filing and a box being checked wrong. They were claiming that Kelly was stalking or something and the press was hounding her even staking out the house to the point where she felt she couldn't go out and take her sons to school (hopefully I am remembering the details correctly here but you get the idea). So the second one was in 2004 and that is the one that has been "standing" I guess is the only way I could put it. My question which has never been clear to me is did Kiefer file for divorce or did Kelly. Also, note that although a very private person when relating only to his relationships, lol (Kiefer seems willing to talk about everything and anything except that subject) he will go public to set the record straight which may indicate he was calling it like it is in that recent engagement denial.

I also seem to remember Kiefer taking Kelly to Vegas for the Stones concert I believe to celebrate her birthday possibly but maybe that is the reference to him reconciling with her which I guess they did.

I was looking over some of the old pics on Kiefer Rocks today and noticed one of Kiefer at an awards show with Holly Hunter. In that pic he does appear to have a wedding band on but I can't be sure; the awards pic is not dated, however.

Yep, you're remembering the correct stuff about the first filing.

Kiefer filed for divorce both times but, when the divorce is generally amicable and one of the parties is a celebrity, I think it's common for the celebrity to do the filing... so I don't think that really means anything one way or another.

Anything coming from Kiefer's (or any celeb's) publicists can be considered truthful... insofar is that the message definitely is the message that the celeb wants to be made public. That it comes from the publicist is kind of like the "Good Housekeeping Stamp of Approval" on a story. :)

Yes, Kiefer and Kelly were at the Stones show in Vegas in November 2002 and, as I recall, it was for her birthday. That also was where he denied the rumor that he was engaged to Catherine by saying, "It would be difficult for me to be engaged since I'm already married." They certainly may've been temporarily reconciled at that point... which was over 5-1/2 years ago. That is to say, it's been a long time since then. :)

That's the 2004 Golden Globes and that's the signet ring, not his wedding ring. (If you look under the "Awards" pics on Kiefer-Rocks, you'll see better shots of the ring than in the pic with Holly.) That's the ring that he was wearing - and on that finger - before he met Kelly. He wears it in the movie "The Cowboy Way." His wedding ring was light metal (probably platinum) and was a simple band. In the other pics on K-Rocks, you clearly can see that this is a signet ring, not a band.

Jesus, is Linda & Christy the same person. Its hard to interpret all the interpreting thats going on over other peoples comments being interpreted by you.

Where have you been Christy/Linda people have already made comments on this site about all the places K&K have been. Its old stuff.
People have already discuss on this site K&K marriage & divorce dates.
People have already mentioned the ring. People have already talked about Christy/Linda's judging K&K marriage and trying to make it look ugly with bringing up old gossip again and again. Kiefer has never air anything bad about his personal life on TV, especially about his family or restraining orders.
Your just DIGGING for what really happen in 04.
Please, catch up to what we all know on this site.

Stop playing guessing games about K&K's married life. Your dates have POOR Kiefer divorcing 3 different times with Kelly. (laughed at that one)!! I think! I think! Its possible! That's possible! Either you know for sure or you don't.

If anyone is playing at a fantasy its Christy?/Linda? in their heads about SB. OMG, did I interpret it right. Maybe you are her and that would make you one sick jealous person.

Seems to me they had many Romantic times together and they are the things we should remember.
Like I said before: It's simple, if Keifer did not like his loveless marriage he had 12 years to get out but he stayed.

Nophia

got cut off...Seems to me they had many Romantic times together and they are the things we should remember about their marriage.

Like I said; Its simple, if Kiefer did not like his loveless marriage he had 12 years to get out, but he stayed.

Nophia

Someone else mention on this site that Christy/Linda could be SB with a multiple personality disorder, if so god help Kiefer, his in alot of trouble.

Her comments sound more like email addressed to Linda, & Linda replying that fast. So strange..........Does Christy/Linda think we are that stupid.

I beleive she was home all day checking out things on the internet,reading trashy tabloid stuff, watching old interveiws and movies, just to inform us about this date & that date. It really is funny in a sick way. Her/Them pretending to know so much about K&K life. She did not know about Romania and other things until JMW informed us. She doesn't know about the RING either!!

She is not a OLD LOYAL FAN of Kiefer's. She dislikes Kelly very much.

I also google the house in Sherman Oaks & thought the Heart Shape Pool was romantic.

Loyal fan to Kiefer & Kelly, hoping things work out for them in the future.
Hoping also that they stay best friends!
Wishing Sarah the best in her acting career in NY. The boys I hope will always have Kiefer in their lifes.

Nophia, no one said that Kiefer divorced Kelly three times. Divorce is a two-part process. Initially, you file and then, at some point later after all parties agree to the terms and decide to go ahead, the divorce is finalized.

Kiefer first filed in early 2000 and then filed again in early 2004. The filing made in early 2004 was then finalized in May of this year.

Hey, Linda!

I was thinking that the site you referenced was the Krew, but no PM yet so just wanted to make sure we were thinking of the same place. Is that correct?

If you just haven't had a change to PM yet, that's totally cool! Just making sure we're on the same page... or, well, site. ;) :)

Neither one of them AGREED to file anything until 2006. In 2007 they got together to see if they could make it but it did not happen. In 07 the divorce would have gone through but Kiefer got his DUI and jail time. They waited until he got out to finish finalizing everything. Know matter what happen, they were married for 12 yr. do the math. Stop being so mean! End of Story!

You are crazy, pretending to be two different people and going on about something that is over & not any bodies business but theirs.

Go see a doctor and get help! God forbid if you are SB. (SB cut short..stands for Son of a Bitch),that's the initials everyone gave her or you.

I'm *so* curious as to where you're getting that I don't like Kelly. I have absolutely nothing against Kelly. I don't know Kelly. If things had worked out for her and Kiefer that would've made me totally happy if it made him/her/them happy.

For whatever reasons, though, their marriage didn't work out... and I'm sure that's a source of sadness for both of them.

And, yes, they were married for just short of 12 years (June 1996 through May 2008). They also were verifiably separated for many many of those years. I don't say that because I don't like Kelly (again, I don't know her) or because I had any particular wish for their marriage to end (I didn't). I just say it because it's true.

That's all. :)

They had many many romantic times together, which were nice. It took me awhile but I found the house in Sherman Oaks and seen the Heart Shape Pool. That might have been a Romantic surprise for her. I thought it was romantic that he went back to Canada and bought a house around the corner just to win her back. I had know idea that tough guy Kiefer could be like that. Thanks>>> to the person, for letting me know about the house. Its cute!

Kiefer was really cool on Letterman!

Kiefer is now with Siobhan and they are happy together. Siobhan is not just a girlfriend ... he shares a lot of things with her ! it seems now that (i'm not sure") they live together in LA and NY.

Kiefer did a great job on the Letterman show with the questions about Jail. He did not say anything about stopping his drinking, just not going to drive when he is. That was sad!
Everything was wrong with the way he was dressed. The suit was fine but the rest in my opinion made him look like a geek, (square shirt and tan socks) too much going on. Even his hair was not the way he usually styles it, it looks like he is going bald!
Please go back to the way you used to dress & style your hair. You looked so old last night. Geeky!
I want the younger cooler Kiefer back. No need to dress like Letterman.

I was so hopeful that Siobhan was out of the picture when I saw the pics of Kiefer & his friend Darla that surfaced at the end of June.

There's something about this one that I don't trust. Especially if some of what I've heard about her is true - be careful, Kiefer!

Just goes to show how different taste can be, Anonymous Who Didn't Like Kiefer's Style On Letterman, because I thought he looked spectacular! Very fashion forward. (Not, imo, "old man"-like in the least.) And I thought his hair and everything about him looked wonderful! Love the all-over tan... that is, not just on his face (which is when it's clearly make-up or spray tan), but on his hands too... which we now know is because he's been spending some time at the beach).

I agree that he did a wonderful job with the interview! :)

YES, I was also disappointed with Kiefer's interview on Letterman because of him still being in denial of his drinking problem. Instead of him addressing it as one, he joked about selling the cars so he would not be tempted to drink and drive. Very immature. His mom was right, he should grow up. He didn't learn a thing in jail except not to bend down to pick up the soap. Like girls want to hear that type of talk. Gross! He has no respect for woman!!
If he goes back to jail, know more 24.. the crew will be out of work again. He got lucky when the strike hit around his jail time. He got lucky just to have a career with 24.

He always dressed with some class on interviews but he looked like a HICK last night and looked 5 years older. It was shocking to see how much hair he lost, unless it was the way he had it combed back. I hope he is aware that tanning will age him even more & give him old age spots.

I liked Kiefer when he first started on 24, he was always humbled and grateful for every thing, now he is just mouthing the words with a snicker & he is prepared for every question. He isn't the same Kiefer. He has changed alot in the last year. He is no longer cute to me......

I'm sorry I watched the interview! He is so different in real life then in 24. In 24 this is the way we wish to picture a man to be, with honor. I'm staying away from all of it so maybe when 24 returns, I'll enjoy it.

"I'm staying away from all of it"

Ok. Bye.

David Letterman took notice that Kiefer was copying him especially with the suit. The socks are Lettermans trade-mark not Kiefers, so I'm not sure why Kiefer did that! Silly.

On the Conan show all he needed were 2 red bands around his sleeves and he would have looked like a Saloon Keeper from the Wild Wild West Show.

Then he was dressed just like Kelly's husband on the Regis & Kelly Show.

All of Kiefer's pic's are staged. When he was having lunch outside on the patio, who in the hell wears a sports coat in 90 degree weather.

His face was so red, that he looked like he had NO lips on the Letterman show. I think he had on white eye shadow.

What the hell is going on, its crazy.

"crazy"

I agree and I don't mean Kiefer or his appearance.

Anonymous...Letterman put Kiefer on the spot about whether drinking was the issue & Kiefer answered like any true alcholic in denial would. He had 3 DUI's & does not get it. He insulted the MADD MOM'S in LA & other states. When he gets his licenses back, they are going after him big time. They will hound the LA police & NY police until they get their man. Kiefer is just a number to them, but he is at the top of their list.

HE SHOULD HAVE SAID HE WAS GETTING HELP FOR HIS ALCOHOLISM. THAT WHAT THEY WANT TO HEAR.

Vi...Its so funny about the Saloon Keeper, it was the image I got too & that is where I would put Kiefer, probably as soon as he gets his movie released & he becomes bored.

I do wish him the best with his drinking problem because he will have to fight it for the rest of his life.
Lets hope he doesn't turn to DRUGS because they can hide it a lot easier.

2-Anonymous:
"I'm staying away from all of it"---"Crazy". You sound like a 2 time repeat...repeat...OFFENDER. A 3 repeat...you'll sound like the one with the personality disorder.

Love 24

It seems like he may already have his license back or maybe just to drive to work but he was spotted two Saturdays ago pre-Siobhan I think or maybe not dropping off a woman on Sunset Strip at around 4pm and he was driving off after that; this was posted by a biker on his site.

Also, what do people think about the new beach pics. Looks like Siobhan is still around or more likely, she never left. Maybe Kiefer was trying to throw off the paps, etc. although doesn't make sense since he really doesn't get covered like Brittany, et al. but who knows for sure.

At any rate and whether you like her or not seems Siobhan has fully planted herself in his life. Seems to be living there. Wonder if she quit her Allure job!! It wouldn't really surprise me since IMHO the job became obsolete when Kiefer came into the picture.

"Throw off the paps" in what way? (... though, in whatever way, I agree that that doesn't make any sense; Kiefer isn't "hunted" by paps.)

Yes, it looks like Siobhan is around and, who knows, but it would seem to me like that's probably been the case all along. (While it certainly was possible, given Kiefer's schedule over the past month or so, the fact that we hadn't seen her never seemed to me like any kind of definitive proof that she had disappeared.)

What I think about the beach pics is that they're lovely. So fun to see him playing in the ocean like that and he looks delicious! Re: him and Siobhan, as ever, I just wish him happiness and, so, I wish them happiness.

As for whether they're living together - at that beach house or otherwise - who knows? Maybe she took some time off to hang with him in LA. Or not. Dunno. I'm guessing that, as it has a way of doing, time will tell. :)

I agree, she's still around and frankly I do not consider that a good thing. This is a woman who gets what she wants, by hook or by crook. I've had the misfortune of being in the path of women like her in my life and it really bites. And even though I adore Kiefer, I do not think he looks delicious at all right now. He is way too thin. And somehow I don't see Siobhan cooking him a good hearty meal. She's probably too busy spending his money.

Kiefer and Siobhan were together before jail time (many sightings with a brunette) . I think he is happy with her and when you look at him not only in the pictures but also on tv shows, you see another man more mature and smiling.
Christy, i agree with you , the fact that she has not been pictured with Kiefer, in july, was not a proof that it was over.
To see them again doesn't surprise me.

a fan.

Ha! Kiefer has about 12 brunettes going at all times! Not to mention the one he was dropping off on Sunset Strip a few weeks ago ... in a see through top with 50 bikers watching. If anyone wants to think that was Siobhan, well then, have at it. Hey, maybe she is a working girl after all. LOL

Actually, the brunette he was seen with before jail time may very well have been the vet; there were several sightings with her at that time. That doesn't mean he wasn't also with Siobhan during this period but it wasn't exclusive. People who saw him with the vet described them as "more than friends". BTW, there have also been sightings with the vet since he has been publicly with Siobhan starting on April 1st, at least 2 that we know of for sure.

As for Kiefer looking so wonderful during interviews, yes, he looks very happy but don't underestimate the success of his work right now and how the fans have received him at various events, e.g. Comic Con. Again that doesn't mean Siobhan is not a part of it but let's not give her all the credit. Also, Kiefer physically does not look his best right now. I agree with the other poster that he is very very thin especially in his face.

ok, why are you sure is this vet ? we have never seen her and i wonder if she exists.
One or two people have seen him with a brunette (not Siobhan) and so, he is with this woman. Perhaps, she is a friend as Darla ! Don't you think if he was unfaithful to S he would hide from her. Kiefer has been pictured with Siobhan in August 2007 and according to you, after jail, he suddenly remembered of S and went to NY. It doesn't make any sense.
Sorry, but i don't believe any world of this vet story, for me, it's just a way to prove that K is not serious with S.
It's not very nice for people who call themselves fans.
Many fans don't like her and i can understand that but always hear that she is with him for money or fame... it's wearisome.

I'm not SURE of anything, either are you. At least one person that I know of posted where they saw the vet. I have no idea what she is to Kiefer. But she is a brunette and they have been spotted together. And I would love to hear your explanation for the chick on Sunset Strip. I guess Kiefer forgot to be careful that day. wink wink

I'm with you, Anonymous who's suspicious about the existence of The Vet. Might there be someone who lives/works near the 24 set with whom he's been involved at some point in the past? Sure. Might he even have seen her this year? Sure. Does that necessarily mean anything in terms of his relationship with Siobhan? Well, if you're someone who wants Siobhan to disappear because you've decided that she's evil because you want her to disappear (kind of circular, isn't it?), it clearly matters a lot. :) I think it's called "grasping at straws."

I also agree with you that people who don't Siobhan making such nasty assumptions about her intentions regarding Kiefer gets pretty wearisome. I think it shows little respect for Kiefer.

As for those who think that Kiefer's "too thin", I'd love to know what Kiefer you've been looking at for the last many years because his body is no thinner than it's been for quite some time (and I'm not sure that he's ever been this muscular before). His face is less puffy than it's been for many years, which likely is because he's drinking less (which isn't to say not at all).

Excuse me Christy? You don't think the vet exists? someone you know posted about this lady in scrubs over on Lorelai's board. But maybe she was making it up; yeah, that's probably what happened. and as far as Kiefer being too thin, everyone has their opinion. I know you think you know more than anyone else about him, but there are actually some of us out here that know stuff too.

First of all, Anonymous... if you're going to refer to "someone I know" (and, yes, I know what posts you mean), why won't you own your own posts by signing them? (Not that I don't have a good idea, but...) Just curious.

I don't think that the account of talking to people in that restaurant was made up, but I do think that the significance of the The Lady In Scrubs (who I don't think ever was supposed to be a vet, though that's the occupation that's now been assigned to her) to Kiefer never has been clear. As I recall that information, the people who work at that restaurant said that, yes, Kiefer had been in with that woman - recently and in the past - but what they said was that Kiefer and the woman sat on the same side of the table and may have been more than friends but that it wasn't clear what their relationship to one another was.

The part that I don't think is clear from available evidence is what his ongoing relationship with this woman has or hasn't been... or that it has any bearing on his relationship with Siobhan.

You're absolutely right that everyone has their opinions so I shouldn't have made a definitive statement about his body being no thinner than it's been for many years. imo, it isn't. Clearly, in your opinion, it is.

So, what part of him looks too thin to you?

I've been reading the comments and wanted to address those that say because we haven't seen the vet she doesn't exist or Kiefer wasn't involved with her in some way. Most of the women Kiefer has been involved with have not been pictured with him.

We can't all be Siobhan. That is one of the reasons I have been so leary of her. It seemed odd from the beginning of why there were soooooo many pics of them. Especially when all I hear is what a private man Kiefer is. Doesn't this buck that trend for whatever reason?

He was married to Kelly and then off and on with her for 12 years and we didn't get this crop of pics; he protected her from the paps. He was with Jennifer for 3-4 months and we got no pics except one in front of Dominics; we got many private sightings of them but no pics. Even Catherine didn't add up to this many.

I am only trying to say that just because women aren't pictured with him doesn't mean they don't exist or they aren't involved with him. This situation with Siobhan has been unusual to say the least.

Waves to Christy, maybe you can explain cause I can't....

first - I don't use my name because i learned the hard way what happens when you express anything negative about siobhan.
second - my only interest in the vet/lady in scrubs is to make the point that not every brunette he is with is siobhan.
third - his face looks very thin to me. most evident in the pictures of him outside the Regis studio.i also thought his arms and legs looked terribly thin in the Nascar pics. and even in a few of the beach pics you can see his ribs. that's just me though, only my opinion.
I'm sorry if i came off harshly about the vet's existance. it was just that i knew of the woman who has posted about her. But you are correct, she might not be a vet ... some kind of medical person then in light of the scrubs.

I wanted to just add one thing to my post with regard to this matter. If the Lady in Scrubs is/has been more than a friend (what would that make her-did she sleep with him/did they date date)? and given the woman (who was wearing a see through top and extremely tight pants) who he was sighted two weeks ago dropping off on Sunset Blvd in the middle of the day, I would ask the following to those of you who feel Siobhan is the love of his life and has been since at least April 1st (we'll use that date because that is the official outing if you will):

Does it seem ok to all of you that he would be seen in public arenas with these two women. I just wonder about that thinking. I must be from the middle ages then. Cause I would think and I know for myself if a woman is in a serious relationship with a man that woman would not be too open minded about those situations arising. Maybe it is the dawn of a new day or something where it is acceptable. I must be missing something.

I can't say for sure how Kiefer feels about Siobhan and I wouldn't pretend to know but I am just wondering if that seems like normal behavior to all of you.

Hi Linda. :)

First of all, I totally agree that the fact that Kiefer hasn't been pictured with the Woman In Scrubs doesn't necessarily mean anything. For one thing, I don't think that he's normally photographed in LA as often as he's photographed in NYC.

I genuinely think that the main difference between Siobhan and other women he's been involved with is that he's spent so much time with her in NYC, where celebs are regularly photographed on the street, *and* that they've been together during a period in which there's been increased celeb press interest in Kiefer. I *do* think that the initial photos of them outside of Pastis were "planted" (though I don't think they were planted by Siobhan as I know that some folks do). I think (and this all is just my take based on observations of how this kind of stuff seems to work in general) that it was something orchestrated by Kiefer's own publicity concerns to "reintroduce" him to the public eye in a positive light after his time in jail and I think it also may've been by way of "going public" with the relationship with Siobhan. If they wanted to be out and about in NYC, they were going to be photographed (no matter how private he might prefer to be)... so I think they just jumped the rumor mill by "going public", including releasing her name.

Both in terms of the location of the relationships (LA, Santa Maria and Toronto with Kelly... LA with Catherine... NY and LA with Siobhan) and the timing (Kiefer is as famous as he's ever been right now and the number of celebrity photo sources/sites has gone off the charts just in the last couple of years), I don't think that this relationship really can be compared to previous relationships in terms of how often they're photographed together.

BTW, and sorry to add on but I also notice some of you are stating that he has been with Siobhan a year or specifically since August '07, while he was at a very public lunch with her we do not know for certain if he did see her from that time on until after he was out of jail. It was only reported in the Post Page.6 blurb (which I believe Siobhan's side leaked because they named Kiefer and that is NEVER done in their blind items, that they had actually taken up with each other officially in February '08. But here again if you want to believe he was with her since August '07 then you have to know that she was married and her and Kiefer didn't really give a hoot about it; now that is showing very little respect for Kiefer!!

A couple of general thoughts that I have re: the feeling by some that Siobhan is interested in Kiefer somewhat or solely in terms of being made "more visible" by him. If that's true, it seems to me like she's not doing a very good job of carrying out her goal.

- Given that she was on "her turf" when he came to visit her in Paris, doesn't it seem like she would've been able to arrange for them to be photographed together there?

- We only know that she accompanied him to the FOX Upfronts in NYC in May because, when he got angry at the security guy for putting a fan in danger and it showed up on film, she's *briefly* visible on the film. Otherwise, there would've been no record of her being there with him. He *was* officially photographed at events that day. Doesn't it seem like she would've found a way to be in those photos if she's so single-mindedly about the exposure (and he's so dim as to not get that wouldn't he have invited her to pose with him)?

- We know that they've spent at least some time in LA and there are places in LA where you're guaranteed to be photographed (and Kiefer knows them b/c he's used them for "intentionally public meetings"... like dinner with his dad at Mr. Chow's after the Emmy's) and, yet, we haven't seen them at those places. I'm not saying that we never will (since Kiefer does go to those places), but we haven't yet.

- If she's so ambitious for furthering her own... well, I'm actually not sure I know what people think she's trying to further :)... would she appear with him so often dressed down and wearing almost no (if any at all) make-up?

Christy, I agree with you that Kiefer planted those initial pics both at Pastis and followed up at Waverly Inn; I never felt that came from Siobhan. However, as I have said to others he can't now turn it off. He chose to OUT himself as it were and now he must take the heat. However, I am not sure that the other pics in NYC and two of the visits by Siobhan to LA including one in Griffith Park (do paps normally hang out there) may have been tipped by Siobhan.

Kiefer has made many many trips to NYC over the last two years including in October when his sentence first broke and November around Thanksgving and also the beginning of the month (he was sighted by two people on this visit including the train ride over from DC). On only the one instance where he was food shopping was he photographed by the paps. The others were only private gawker sightings. Wouldn't the paps be basically hunting him down at that point. Wasn't he news worthy then?

Person Who Doesn't Want to Use Your Name Because You Have Negative Things To Say About Siobhan, that's cool... but - and this is a very sincere question - have you seen some of the things said about/to me in this thread because I don't despise Siobhan? Seriously, people have said some pretty amazingly nasty things... but, hey, those are just sticks & stones and they haven't broken my bones. :) I'm just saying that it's certainly not just *not* liking Siobhan that can get a person slagged. :D

I do think that Kiefer's face looks thinner but, jmo, that really is because it's less puffy which, again just speaking for myself, I consider a good thing.

Re: the rest of his body, while the NASCAR shirt definitely emphasized the thinness of his forearms (I think they've always been incredibly thin), I genuinely don't think that his body looks thinner than before. He *is* very very thin, but that's just... him. To my eyes, anyway.

But I understand that we disagree about this. :)

Hey, Linda... I want to (am going to) respond to your question about Kiefer being seen with women other than Siobhan (though I'm not convinced that the woman seen by the bikers wasn't her, but who knows... :)), but want to ask a really specific question first:

When you say "people who believe that Siobhan is the love of his life," do you include me in that group?

I kinda feel like I need to understand that - and/or that we need to reach a better understanding about that - before I continue the conversation.

Thanks! :)

OMG, do you ladies don't have a OWN life????

It always fascinates me when someone asks that question when they were *reading* the comments... thus indicating an interest in them, I'm thinking. ;) :)

Anonymous, apparently neither do you since you are here, LOL!!!

Christy, I will say I believe you are in the camp of thinking Siobhan is good for Kiefer. The "Siobhan is the love of his life" comment may be overstated but it's close to how I perceive some of the Siobhan people's thinking. In fact, I think some have even put it that way without knowing themselves the extent of the relationship. I am not questionning that Kiefer loves her or not. How would I know that and I have to assume he at least has some strong feelings for her since he is with her right?

I am only questionning whether she is good for him and what her motives would be based on what I have examined about her, etc. BTW, you mentioned Paris and the Upfronts. Supposedly Kiefer made a "stealth" visit to Paris yet we got a blurb from a fashion writer at the NY Observer that "Kiefer had made a stealth overnight visit to the lovely and hard working Siobhan Bonnouvrier". Notice that lovely and hard working went side by side with her name. Look, anyone at fashion show may have leaked that to this guy but if Kiefer was so stealth I take that to mean he went right to her room, period; how did he know about it. I guess someone saw them together (I know they walked outside for abit so maybe that is where but who knows). BTW, this reminded me of that famous blurb that got all around about how wonderful Siobhan was for Kiefer and had changed him into a new man in just a few short weeks. That blurb made Siobhan look like one very wonderful woman but Kiefer doesn't come off looking so good so doesn't sound like someone from his side put it out, does it? It also doesn't make Kelly sound so good since she was in his life for all these many years; I would be insulted if I were her.

Thanks for your response, Linda. I'm going to put my response re: what I think about Siobhan alone in this post so that it doesn't get mushed up with other thoughts:

I have no clue whether or not Siobhan is the love of Kiefer's life. I don't think anyone from afar has the information to make that call, one way or another and that it would be kind of early to be making it, anyway. I also know that I don't have any way of knowing whether or not she's good for him.

My feeling is and always has been that I don't know enough about her *personally* one way or another to have a strong opinion about her *personally* one way or another. That includes what *is* known about her which, to me, doesn't speak in any conclusive way about her. Life is complicated and, in terms of relationships, Kiefer's own personal history wouldn't necessarily sound so good if you were hearing it without any context. Heck, it doesn't even necessarily sound so good when you hear it *with* context. But I don't think that he means that he doesn't deserve another chance at happiness (with whomever); so, in the absence of knowing anything else about her except that she divorced in the past year, I don't feel like I can judge her as unworthy of another chance at happiness (with whomever) either.

All I feel that I *can* know from afar is that Kiefer seems to be interested in spending time with her and, so, I'm hopeful for him that that's a good thing. How deep it goes and what will come of it, I have no idea... but, because I wish him well, I wish them well.

Re: Kiefer being seen with other women since he's been "out" with Siobhan, I certainly can see Kiefer continuing to be friends with women he's been friends - and even more than friends - with in the past. I've been in a monogamous relationship with my husband for 19 years now, but always - and from the beginning - I've maintained friendships with men, including those with whom I'd had more-than-friendships in the past. My husband still talks to/sees female friends, some of whom were more-than-friends in the past too. So, of course everyone's different, but that doesn't seem that odd to me.

Also, though we can see from afar that Kiefer & Siobhan have been spending time together for awhile, we can't know from afar what their agreement is about other people. My guess - but it's only a guess - is that there may be an attempt at exclusivity... and I don't think that anything we've seen/heard rumored necessarily means that it hasn't been exclusive. But, even if it's something that they're trying for (and, again, who knows?), given Kiefer's history (and maybe hers too; I just know more from afar about his than about hers), it may not be an entirely smooth road getting to that destination... if/when they do... if that's even where they're trying to get.

... and last response (for now)... ;)

Re: the item re: Kiefer's visit to Paris, I do think that it came from Siobhan's *industry*, but I think that's different than it coming from her or from her *camp*. I also think that you're reading a lot into the word "stealth". He was in and out apparently overnight, which made sense given his own schedule at that point... but, as you say, they were spotted outside. Not very stealthy. :) imo, if she was grasping so hard for attention, she'd have found a way to get them photographed together there, but she didn't.

Regarding the, to me, very clearly made-up tabloid story, what I would say is... not every tabloid story is planted by someone. There are stories that are standard tabloid fodder and "Such&Such Troubled Celebrity has been saved by Thus&TheOther New Squeeze" is a textbook example of standard tabloid fodder. That's what I've always thought that "story" was... from the first moment I read it until this very second.

SB is just a decoy to Kiefer's Camp, to draw the attention away from the real issue and that is alot of the HATE MAIL he got when he was in jail. That's why he has bodyguards around him. Before his sentence Kiefer roamed everywhere free without the bodyguards. Did you ever wonder, why now? And his dog! He is not that famous.
Kiefer is not the only one on the internet with Web sites. Love ones have been Killed by drunk drives and you only care about his next SQUEEZE! If it was yours, you'll be raising Hell.
Letterman gave him a chance, more then one to address his drinking problem & he failed both test. Letterman is a smart & good man. Believe me, Letterman knew what he was doing for the families that are victims of Drunk Drivers. He asked the right questions without putting himself on the spot. Lets see if Craig Ferguson does the same since he is a reformed alcoholic.
Or if someone will change the subject again & again on this site.
By the Way..No, at the Fox Upfront, I seen SB before the cart incident, because I thought it was funny that she said "Hello" to KS agents & they totally ignored her.
The bikers were just joking. They actually seen KS helping a old lady out of the car.
KS has been with the girl in the scrubs, he has a thing for her, but she doesn't like the spotlight plus he paints art work on another girls body and she is the one who exposes herself. SB is not KS only girlfriend. They probably have this thing called a UNDERSTANDING.

They have this thing called a UNDERSTANDING!
All the photo's are a decoy so woman will talk about them instead of the real issue. Are their alot of men on this site? The men are still talking about his DUI, and how stupid he was.
This is the second alcoholic program he has been in. He joked about it and that's unforgivable.

They have this thing called a UNDERSTANDING!
The photo's are a decoy for the woman to talk about. The main issue, he went to 2 alcoholic programs in the past 3 years and he is making jokes.

Are you also in denial of his drinking problem? IT'S STILL THERE!!!

Anonymous, speaking just for myself, I believe that Kiefer has a severe problem with alcohol and that he has had his whole adult life. I'm not in denial about that. At all.

However, he went to jail for drunk driving, not for being an alcoholic. Being an alcoholic is many many things, but it's not against the law and it's not an indication that a person is, by definition, "bad" or undeserving of happiness.

Is he in denial? Probably. It's one of the main symptoms of alcoholism. But we have no way of knowing where his thought process is at about that and the only thing that he's required not to do again is drive drunk, which is what was addressed on Letterman. He didn't/doesn't owe you or me or anyone else an in-depth look into his thoughts about his battle with alcohol.

(As for the rest, for someone who claims not to care who his girlfriend is, you certainly have some strong opinions about that subject. Hmm... ;) )

Hmm...Yourself Christy! Talking about SB again & his girlfriends were probably just an distraction to steer everyone away from the discussion of KS talking about his drinking problems, Jail time & the way he looked on the Letterman show. Even his web sites took action & put those pics up just in time.

On Home-Kiefer Sutherland Site; the message box stopped on Fri-Sat-Sun-Mon(time 2 hrs ago)with Theresa saying-"So I guess those pics confirm that he is still with SB..Do you think its true they are going to get Married".

All the pics just in time for the weekend,"AT THE BEACH" & him mentioning it on the Letterman show. HOW SWEET!!! Those pics could have been taken in May or early June. They were POSTED ON Aug 6th. POSTED ON: does not mean they were NEW Pics. The sites put up old pics all the time. Even the site where they got the pics from sayed; "Posted on Aug 6th" Strange.....

The important issue: this is his second Alcoholic Program. This is an issue we should all think strongly about & fight for someone extraordinarily important as Kiefer to get the word out there. Letterman gave him the chance, but he failed all of us.

All his sites are Staged events!!

2008- One website KieferRocks.
The other sites: sure do get the info, to too Fast....
His sites: add their own Words to Pics!
Posted on: can deceive you.
The message on Home-KS: did stop at Theresa all weekend.
Pics at Beach: Staged-not drinking!! Drinking juice in pics. Having fun in ocean without his girlfriend. Doesn't want to get her hair wet for pics.
This site: Christy to distract...take notice!

Why? Kiefer is Desperate: He hates 24, wants out, working to many hours and the money is not good enough for him, he wants a Big Screen Hit(MIRRORS),so he can work for 2 months out of the year and drink himself to "Death" the other part. Hide, so he can stop pretending in the real world.

Nothing about a New contract this year. They usually renew in April.

NO MORE 24. IT's OVER......

Wow. I think that you may actually be... what's the word I'm looking for? Oh, I know...

Insane.

What you're saying about the Kiefer fan sites is so incoherent I don't even know where to start, but one fact's for sure... he doesn't have an "official" site.

As for 24, the show has been renewed and he has a contract through an 8th season. They're working on the 7th season now. So who knows what it was you were expecting to see in April, but there was nothing to announce. His contract has been in place for a couple of years and the show was renewed through an 8th season way back in 2007.

So, there are some actual facts. Not, I suspect, that they'll pierce your irrationality.

Anonymos has a right to his/her opinion so it was not "insane" to inform us of the dates on the pics, it was interesting to check myself and the dates were POSTED ON: Aug 6th. This doesn't mean they were taken then.

The posted on: dates can deceive, I had to double check myself many times.
Websites do add their own words to the pics. BB site does it all the time!

I guess MYSPACE in not his "official" website either.

His contract was in 2005 for 3 years, who knows whether we should include last year because of the writers strike.

On Penny's website for Kiefer the message box did stop on Theresa all weekend because I checked it out.
The pics did come out at an strange time for the weekend, after the Letterman show.

Just because these are suppose to be "Fan Sites" does not mean Kiefer's camp is not involved. We don't know this for sure but it is very very possible. I would say this is true. They read all the sites.

I guess it was insane to mention that Kiefer was in the ocean having fun without his girlfriend because she did not want to get her Photos taken with wet hair. All true by pics!

You threw in 1 fact (maybe) and you think you know it all. You interpret things so much differently then anyone else, especially when the truth is there for anyone to check. If you don't like others opinions then get off the site. You have no right to be nasty to others calling them names like a child. This site does not belong to you.

When someone is incoherent in an overwrought manner, I'm not going to mince words about it. So, let's go through your post, point by point...

Yes, the dates on photos can be confusing. How, exactly, is that "deceptive"?

Yes, fan sites put their own captions on photos. And? What point are you trying to make?

The new MySpace is, I suppose, going to be the closest thing he has to an "official" site. Since it just appeared late last week, it remains to be seen how often it'll be updated. I doubt that it'll never be a definitive source of news/photos.

His contract definitively includes an 8th season. That was confirmed recently by Jon Cassar.

What is it supposed to mean that Penny's message box stopped at Theresa's post? So what? Why is it strange that the photos came out soon after they were taken? The general response to the Letterman interview was very positive. There was no need to "distract" from it.

If you want to believe that "Kiefer's camp" has a hand in fan sites, that's certainly your right.

Regarding Siobhan not going in the ocean with Kiefer because she didn't want photos of her taken with wet hair, I guess you haven't seen the most recent photos, have you? :)

Anonymous, the site you are speaking is Penny's one and it's not an official site, i mean it's a fan site. It's nothing to do with a good publicity for Kiefer, it's not a PR thing.
I agree with you with the fact that he wants a "real" role in a movie but please stop saying that he's with this girl to distract people from his drinking problem. We all know and he doesn't hide he still has this problem.
Finally, we get the pics of the GF and her wet hair...for those who wonders why she was not with him in the water. Seriously, do you still think they knit in their bed ? Some people need to wake up here, this girl is charming and it seems they were together next year, before jail even if she was and he was still married...(now, it's not the case,strange ?).
Linda, have you seen the pics of August 2007, she has her hand in his hair and she's next to him ... You're going to tell me they were just friends because Siobhan was still married...HUM...We never have confirmation that he was with this brunette "vet", now, you believe what you want. What i see is K and S and not K with the "vet"... And of course, to explain we don't have pictures of this woman, it has been said that she doesn't like spotlight...
I don't know Siobhan so i can't tell she's perfect or not for K. To see them in those pics, they don't REALLY REALLY care of what we think, they are happy and they enjoy life.

A fan.

YEA CHRISTY, STOP BLOWING SMOKE UP OUR ASS. YOU GAVE 1 FACT (MAYBE). KIEFER'S PEOPLE PROBABLY OWN THE SITES. THERE SURE DO GET THE INFO FAST. KIEFER HAD ONE SITE KIEFEROCKS. WHAT, HE BECAME POPULAR SINCE JAIL WITH 10 WEBSITES NOW.
I'M WITH THE OTHERS. SOMETHING IS STRANGE AND EVERYTHING LOOKS STAGED.

KIEFER WAS AN ASS ON DAVID LETTERMAN. HE SAID, "IF A PERSON DOESN'T GET IT AFTER SPENDING TIME IN JAIL, THEY NEVER WILL". WELL, HE SHOULD HAVE GOTTEN IT IN 04 WHEN HE WENT TO AN ALCOHOLIC PROGRAM. WHAT WAS HE DOING SLEEPING. 4 DUI'S AND HE CAN'T ADMIT HE NEEDS HELP AND NOT TO GET BEHIND THE WHEEL. JAIL TIME WASN'T ENOUGH FOR HIM. THEY SHOULD TAKE HIS LICENSES AWAY FOREVER. HE KNEW IN 04 THAT HE WAS AN ALCOHOLIC. BEING AN ALCOHOLIC IS NO EXCUSE TO DRIVE, IT KILLS.

NO EXCUSES!! IS HE A CHILD?

What excuse for driving drunk did you hear him give?

(... and Kiefer had multiple fan sites *long* before he went to jail.)

What excuse for driving drunk did you hear him give?

(... and he had multiple fan sites *long* before he went to jail.)

Apologies for the double post. The board timed-out the first time I posted and I didn't think it took. :)

I agree that Kiefer did not address his drinking problem enough on Letterman. Instead of saying he intends to address it in future, he jokes that he will sell the car!. I think its his ego that needs to be addressed!. He has learned nothing and is likely to continue down the same path.
As for Siobhan, I dont think she is the evil money grabbing witch most have painted her to be. She has her own career so she is making her own money.. I dont envy her being with Kiefer though because theres always going to be other women..not to mention dealing with his drinking binges.. I heard he got drunk later the same day on April 1st (the day of those first very public photos of them in NY) and she didnt want to be photograped with him, though she was happy to be snapped with him earlier in the day when he was sober... what does that tell you?...

Assuming that's true (and, out of curiosity, where did you hear it?), it tells me that his drinking probably is an issue between them... as I would expect it to be.

Alcoholism is a terrible thing to deal with (and, no, it doesn't excuse drunk driving, but I still am waiting for someone to show me where Kiefer made an excuse for driving drunk) and I would expect Kiefer's issues with alcohol to be a difficult thing for him and anyone he's in a relationship with to deal with.

Why do people assume that Siobhan doesn't know that and isn't consciously choosing to be with him in spite of that? Though it can make a person difficult to be in a relationship with, being an alcoholic doesn't make a person unworthy of being loved. Given the change in his patterns (he hasn't been seen at his usual haunts in LA much if, in some cases, at all... he's moved out of that neighborhood, etc), it seems to me like he may be trying to control his drinking. I personally don't believe that he'll succeed in doing that over the long term unless/until he decides to quit altogether... but that doesn't mean I don't wish him well with his attempts... and it doesn't mean that I don't wish Siobhan well if she's hanging in there with him while he tries.

Erin, I glad someone else paid attention to the Letterman show.
He also said, "That his DUI was inexcusable & irresponsible of him and thought he was OK to drive"! WHAT? That was his "EXCUSE"! Of all people after being in an Alcoholic Program in 04 knew he shouldn't have drove, but call someone. He knows the law on that issue after 4 DUI's. IGNORANTS OF THE LAW IS NO EXCUSE, STOP MAKING EXCUSES "FOR HIM". His arrogants & money made him beleive he was above the law. He got the shit fooled out of him this time & went to jail. He is still arrogant enough to sit there & joke about a very serious issue to the public.

Letterman gave him a chance to be honest but he failed his fans & the public. Don't do a TV show promoting a movie & be dishonest about the rest. We can see through the lies. He became an target for the people who LOST love ones to Drunk Drivers.

If you've really lost someone to a drunk driver (I'm not sure I believe that because I think your real issue is just that you have a Kiefer vendetta... for whatever reason), I'm very very sorry about that. I'm certainly very very sorry about *any* life that is lost to drunk driving.

But... that said, I'm also sorry to say that your comprehension skills aren't very good. You say that he said what he did was "irresponsible and inexcusable" and then you say he made excuses. Um, no, he said it was inexcusable.

When he was asked *what happened*, he said that he believed that he was okay to drive (which IS how a lot of drunk driving happens). That wasn't an excuse. It was an answer to the question. Whether or not you liked that answer, it was an honest answer... which, to reiterate, isn't the same as an excuse.

He never said that what he did was excusable. He said the opposite.

Who are you trying to fool Christy? We know Kiefer just as well as you think you do.

He is with SB because she likes to drink, party and smoke, only they are doing it in private so Kiefer can get his licenseS back. His Good Behavior motivation skills. I'm sure she isn't paying the bills. Her job doesn't pay her millions. She is using him too. Kiefer's arrogant enough to feel its an fair deal!

There are Givers in this World and Takers. Kiefer is a Taker. He is arrogant enough to use woman, because he knows he can.

Just like Drinking & Driving. Arrogant enough to try and get away with it.

He is unworthy of anyones love, thats why the woman leave him. A selfish human being who is not interested in the wishes and feelings of others. Like his Mom, Dad, daughter, sons and close friends or he wouldn't continue to put them through public embarrassment. He is UNWORTHY of their love! THAT HURTS!

No Christy, you do not comprehend the
EXCUSE. The excuse was "He THOUGHT he could drink and drive". A 18 year old excuse! "AFTER THE FACT" he now believes it was irresponible and inexcusible.

YOU don't care whether people lost love ones to drunk drives. You will never compenhend it or understand it, because that person wasn't your love one. So don't even go there by saying your sorry. You don't mean a damn word of it! We need to keep licenses out of the hands of Kiefer Sutherland and people like him who are in denial, so THEY WILL NOT take the one you love Christy.

People like you & Kiefer will only understand it and be in denial until it happens to you. GOD FORBID!

You need to support people like Kiefer not make excuses for his behavior. Thats why he will do it again and again.

I'm sorry, but we simply disagree about whether or not explaining the thinking that prompted his self-admittedly irresponsible and inexcusable act is the same thing as offering an excuse for it.

You think that it is.

I think that it isn't.

And clearly we'll never agree on that point.

Christy. Kiefer being drunk on April 1st is true. It was in the early hours of the morning around 2am, actually making it the 2nd. He had stopped at a hot dog joint after a few hrs of drinking and a fan who was also there took a pic of him... you can clearly see in the pic that he was drunk. The fan also stated that a pretty brunette was with him but said she didnt want her photo taken, yet she was fine with all the paps snapping away after they had lunch. I dont think shes just after his money, but maybe not for the right reasons either. Maybe the fame or exposure? I think someone was right when they said, 'She wouldnt give him a second glance if he wasnt a star'...
I hear Kiefer pretty tight with his money too.

Oh yeah, I forgot about the Gray's Papaya photo. Thanks for the reminder! I thought he looked like he'd been drinking, but not like he was absolutely smashed. As for her declining to "get in the picture" for a fan photo, I'm failing to follow your logic. If she's "in it for the fame and exposure", wouldn't she happily pose for all photos, regardless of Kiefer's state?

As for his being "tight with his money," it certainly wouldn't surprise me in the least if he's *careful* with his money, but I've never heard anything other than that he's a good tipper, which is about the only public way that how he is/isn't with his money would come to light.

Whether he is or isn't "tight" with it, though, I'm curious... what exactly did that observation have to do with this conversation?

I wa just thinking, presuming she is a golddigger.. she is not going to like that he is tight with his money.( an ex girlfriend said that once.. I think it was Tricia) It might test their relationship further down the track.
As for the exposure she's thinking of her own, not Kiefers... What for her is a good pic and what is a bad pic? and being seen with Kiefer drunk is not good exposure for her. Why did she not want one photo taken by a fan late at night? when she was happy enough to be snapped by hoardes of papparazzi earlier in the day?.

I dont think hes tight just careful is a better way of describing him.
Why all this interest in Siobhan? Its been less than a year that hes been dating her. Hes been with women longer that that! . He was with Catherine on and off for five years and Kelly hes known since 1996. All, of a sudden theres this great interest in Siobhan!..for now shes just another notch in his belt buckle!

I agree with, Whats all the fuss about Siobhan?. Why the harsh words about her?
For the most part I think its Envy.
As for the relationship, it remains to be seen if it will last..
Kiefer not exactly Known for being loyal to one woman! ..

Lee, I will respect your opinion and ask that you respect mine and others like me without passing judgement that it is based on envy.

I know for myself that I have very specific reasons which I have stated for being mistrustful of her. It seems to me she may be in it for the access and fame and money. I think you can add to that it is not unreasonable to think that she is blabbing to the press and also tipping off the paps; they always seem to be where she is but who is to say for sure this is just one opinion on the matter.

As I have also stated before it really doesn't matter in the end what you or I or anyone else thinks. Kiefer will make his own decisions and he has made some good and some bad like many of us.

As a fan I just wish him the best. I wish him health and happiness.

Erin made a good point: SB DIDN'T want her photo being taken because she was DRUNK too!!!

Rumors were going around on how great she was FOR Kiefer, at that time.

Kiefer doesn't date woman who willn't Party, Drink or Smoke. After all, they did meet at a Rocco concert, where everyone was partying and drinking.
Or maybe, she was very innocent of it all?! HA!

Envy is Carrie Underwood or Angelina, not an No-body like SB. She only makes a few thousand a year for godsakes.
He showed more affection for Tricia, but your right, he was never loyal to one woman.

Penny Site confirmed they don't no when the Beach pic were taken. He's been seen with other woman so maybe she is history.

a fan have seen her recently in Malibu with his range rover...To explain this interest about this woman, i think fans like me are afraid of this relationship because Kiefer is not married to Kelly anymore...So, if it's serious , there's possibility to see a next marriage.
Now,i think (it's my opinion), they live together and he introduces her to his family and she's not only a "girlfriend". So, now, we will see in the future.

Kiefer does not have his Range Rover anymore. He sold it because it brought him bad luck when he got stopped by the cops.

His people already stopped the rumors of a marriage. Have not seen any pics of them since June. The dates for the Beach pic; no one can confirm dates.

Kiefer said "He lived at the beach before and he would never do it again, to far from work and it was boring'.

His family does not approve of her because she drinks and smokes like Kiefer and his father is allergic to cigarette smoke (the smell on their clothes). You know!

Its his choice, if he decides to get married again, not the fans. If they are still together, let Kiefer have his fun! He Deserves It!!!

We will wait for it to happen, then CELEBRATE!

It's my understanding that Kiefer & Kelly were on again/off again in their 12 yr. marriage. He did have relationships (I think) with other woman in between, but he could have got out of his marriage long ago and married whomever. Who knows why he didn't! SO WHY WOULD WE BE AFRAID, IF HE GOT MARRIED AGAIN? Kiefer will always be Kiefer.

I'm sure if he is going to get married, he wouldn't let his fans down and will announce it.

I'm sure it will be HUGEGANTIC (sorry my 7 year old nephew uses that cute word all the time) NEWS!!!!

I think the beach pics are recent. Last week or so he was spotted shopping for swimming flippers and then he is seen with them in the beach pics. so she must be still around.
Dont trust her either. Her divorce was too quick. I just hope her husband divorced her and not the other way around.

Anony...The flipper pics were posted on or 1 day before the same date as the beach pics. Posted on:(not an official date). Thats why Penny(site) can't confirm official date either.

MAYBE SOMEONE SHOULD LOOK INTO SIB & DAVID'S DIVORCE RECORDS. FIND OUT EXACTLY WHEN THEY FILED FOR A SEPARATION & DIVORCE. GOOD QUESTION?????

Someone sayed she cheated on ex and lied to Kiefer about being married.

Her resume: Drinks, Party's, Smokes, Cheats & Lies. It gets better and better every day. Maybe she is an alcoholic too.

The amount of ugliness and hatred you folks are able to feel towards someone you don't even know is staggering to witness. But whatever... have at it since it, somehow or another, seems to give you such pleasure.

Anyway... no, Kiefer didn't sell his Range Rover.

The mighty and all-knowing Christy has spoken. (insert rolls-eyes icon here)

What's wrong Christy...You can dig into Kiefer's and Kelly's records & life but not SB. I thought you said many times on this site you didn't know her. Do you know her and do you not? If so, tell us how perfect is she? Is she an alcoholic like Kiefer? DO TELL!

Their were many ugly things you have said about people on this site, just like now (ugliness, hatred, insane etc:). WOW!

Hmmm...protesting to much maybe, about digging into SB past.

EXCUSE ME; I thought they said: They would like to CELEBRATE THE HUGEGANTIC EVENT when it happens. We only want Kiefer to be happy.

My opinion about her in the Land Rover was just made up. To derail us from what Erin was talking about.

ERIN; Go back to my message about the Photo at the Hot Dog stand. She did not want her photo taken because she was "DRUNK" too...Thanks

The only thing I've ever said about Siobhan is that I don't feel like I know enough about her to have a strong opinion about her one way or another. And I've said that over... and over... and over. And, y'know, over. ;) And it hasn't changed.

Kiefer & Kelly's divorce records were made public (no digging necessary) because he's a celebrity. Siobhan & David's not so much. That said, I believe it's fairly clear that she was divorced relatively recently. No mystery there.

Given how absolutely furious the Siobhan-hating person who posted about seeing her driving Kiefer's Range Rover was (it was on the "Kiefer's Place" site), I don't think it was her goal to derail criticism of Siobhan. In fact, based on the post, I'd guess quite the opposite.

It will be interesting to see if she attends the premiere of Mirrors with Kiefer.
I dont get these two. In the beach pics, again and I guess many others, failed to see the spark between them as with all the other pics taken of them.

I hope its not true that she was once on The online dating site 'Date Millionaires.com' for Kiefers sake or hes in trouble!

Whatever comments people make Christy, you do not have to throw hateful ugly comments back.
Your NO different then anyone else on this site, your just as bad, speculating & interpreting everything said. These comments are about SB, not you.

The person was joking about the Rover (about it being bad luck). Where is your sense of humor. It was funny!! Just like the pics coming out on April Fools Day! It was funny! To Celebrate a Hugegantic Event (maybe I'll be there). It was funny!

Who knows about SB life, maybe she is an Alcoholic. Maybe she was drunk at the hot dog stand and didn't want her pic taken. Maybe she is some Saint in your mind. Just saying!

There isn't an official Mirrors premiere, i.e. with a red carpet and stuff.

I'd love to know where you get that I think she's a "saint" based on what I've said about her. "I don't know enough about her to have formed an opinion about her one way or another" isn't the same as "I think she's a saint." In fact, it's not even close.

I don't think that the person was joking about Kiefer selling his Range Rover. I think that the person was trying to disprove that Siobhan was driving it in Malibu recently.

For whatever reason(s), some folks are putting a lot of effort into trying to disprove that she's part of his life. And, if that's what people want to do, that's fine. I don't know what part of his life she is, but it seems pretty clear to me that she's some part of it... at this point, anyway.

By the way, if she was an alcoholic (and I've seen no evidence to that effect, but anything in the world is possible and, to reiterate, I know almost nothing about her... imo, no one posting here does), it wouldn't mean I'd think she's a "bad" person. I believe that Kiefer is an alcoholic and I certainly don't believe that he's a bad person.

I thought Kiefer said on Letterman that he was spending time with his father on the beach? and I havent seen pics of Donald in any beach pic lately.. .which makes me question the date of those pics.. thought my reality check is telling me they are recent...
Also does anyone know if the pics of Kiefer with a mystery Bruntte playing golf in LA is Janet or Janice?.. They were taken in 06 I think.. He looks happy in those pics and having fun, and is showing a lot more affection with her than any pic Ive seen of him with Siobhan!..

She certainly is shorter and more bustier,which is how people have described Janet, so I was just wondering... It maybe the first pics of her? I never figured out who the woman was in those pics. At first I thought it was Eva Longoria because they were taken around the time he was filming The Senitel but someone said she was too tall to be her, as Eva is really tiny...So Im guessing it could be Janet??..

It is wierd how shes suddenly appeared on the scene again after being 'absent' for more that a month.. maybe they have on and off relationship. Could be that they had a fight at the end of June, maybe because she was jealous of him being with other women.. and now they've patched things up again.. wild guess?.. or could be she just stayed low key for a while?. another wild guess!!..

In July, there were many fashion weeks (Paris, London, Berlin...), that would explain her absence next to him. Maybe, she was still there but they haven't been pictured together (that was the case in March 2008)...wild guess ?
About the golf girl, i don't think she's Janice or Janet because according to the sightings, she is slimmer than this woman . In december 2006, don't forget he was still with Catherine. It's not a guess we have pics and sightings in airport.
To express my opinion about Siobhan, i find her charming (I can't say she's a bad person, sorry) but her divorce with David is too fast. And seriously, do you think she would be with Kiefer if he was not a rich and famous actor and if she was not a former model? but, I also think she has feelings for him, i see it in her look on those pics taken in NY when they lunch (she seems to have her head in the clouds). Kiefer have changed, he seems more mature maybe, he's looking for stability in his love life ...he's now 41...wild guess. But i don't understand they are still people who think this girl is just a "friend" ; He went to Paris to see her, they were pictured in front of an hotel in London and hand in hand in NY, she was with him in Africa and now, she's in a house in Malibu next to him nearly kissing each other or kissing each other...and i read "when Kiefer tells us he's with her, i would believe she's her girlfriend"...He never confirms when he was with Catherine or Tricia they were together and nevertheless...

I remember a fan on Bennys site said he couldnt have been in Malibu shopping for the flippers at that time, because he was either in New York or at those speed races ?..so either the date was wrong or someone has posted old pics.

I think the Malibu pics are recent though no one can confirm the exact date.
I think Siobhan is still living in NY and still works for Allure. she just spent the weekend with him again as shes done before. Thats my guess. but hey, I could be wrong!.

But Kiefer is so tanned in NY pics and now, you can see those beach pics on magazines...

The photos of him buying the flippers originally were dated August 3rd, which couldn't have been correct because he was in Pennsylvania at the NASCAR race that day. I'm sure that was just the day that they were posted.

He likely bought them on August 2nd or a day the week before that. The beach pics (where he has the flippers) are some day after that. August 6th, which many are labeled, seems like a good bet to me.

To Anonymous above, who wonders how people can be so convinced that they're "just friends" when they've traveled around together so much, I'm with you. We have no way of knowing how serious or not they are or what their time together now will or won't mean in the future, but it seems awfully clear that they're spending time together in a non-just-friends way right this very now.

I think Kiefer and SB are just friends hanging out together. You think we would see more affection displayed between them with so many pics.
With Tricia in Jan o6 at the Golden Globes he was reaching out for her hand and she was being shy with the pics. She went to the Letterman show with him in 06.
With Eva Aug 06(golf girl) he was actually kissing her and they had their arms wrapped around one another.
Since June we haven't seen any updated pics of Kiefer or SB. The Pics of the flippers & beach could have been in June. Who knows? Every weekend he has been busy. Letterman & Regis is done in NY her home town, but no pics. Weird!
On ET he didn't confirm he was with her. They asked,"Will she face her fears & Mirrors with him". He replyed, "OH, you'll going to have to ask her that". He could have said "Of course".
Best to Kiefer and whomever he is with.

p.s. what Kiefer said on Letterman is that he's seeing his dad down at the beach on Sundays. In LA-talk, that doesn't necessarily mean that he and Donald are putting on swim trunks and going into the water together. It could mean that they're meeting for brunch in Santa Monica (which is where I seem to remember reading that Donald is renting a place... could've been Manhattan Beach... or even Malibu... but do remember the "renting the condo" part) or something like that. "At the beach" can be both a directional definition and a literal thing in LA (as is true, of course, of anywhere with a beach).

Also, I didn't hear what he said to mean that they're literally on an "every Sunday without fail" schedule. It just sounded to me like they're spending time together when they can, which I think is great! :)

My brother travels around with a friend that is an woman, but they are just good friends. He dates and she dates others. They have a great time together. That's it.

So this can be true for them. Nothing is confirmed on the issue. Their pics just don't convince me enough, either.

The beach & flipper pics were POSTED ON: Aug 3rd & Aug 6th. I looked where they Originally came from and it read; Posted on also. Not an official date for them.

Heard K state the same thing on ET about, They would have to ask her. Strange statement to make!

There are pics with a girl with long brown wavy hair that he went to NY with & Rocco's concerts with. She is Spanish looking, I'm not sure who she is. Pic in NY, K is wearing a rain coat & has umbrella over her. Sexy body language going on there, the way K is looking at her 07. Concert pics too 07 or 08. It might be the vet. Not sure!

I believe the family meet at the Beach every Father's Day in Santa Monica. His father has a house in Santa Monica and I believe Kiefer's 1st wife. His daughters (Sarah) mother.

The woman in the photos with the umbrella works for Ironworks. That one is for sure not a romantic relationship.

Thanks but I never seen her at Ironworks before and he was going out of his way to Keep her dry, plus they were at the subway together in NY not LA.

Here are 2 sitings of Kiefer in April 2008.

April 16 2008
Could have sworn I saw Jack Bauer at Dan's Subs in the Valley. He even had the arm tats, looked great clean shaven...he was not with the woman from NY. He had his arms wrapped around a different raven haven hair chic. Much more busty & shorter. At one point he called her Janet (or maybe Janice). He was very happy and relaxed.

April 29 2008:
Today was the highlight of my week, No make that my Mouth. Saw Kiefer on Ventura Blvd./Balboa coming out of CHILI MY SOUL. He was clearly in a great mood. He posed for pics with a couple of heavy set gals...one even got him to say DAMN IT into her cell phone. The Kiefer looked awesome, very skinny!Tennis shoes, jeans and blue t-shirt. He left with a pretty brunette who was dressed in, of all things scrubs. DAMN IT, my cell was in the car.

There were other sitings of the 2 girls but I think they are the same Janet (Janice). Dates are very close together.

With janet, he does have a thing for her. Apparantly she lives in the valley (not sure) but its been said she doesnt like the fame, his drinking and smoking and he respects that so he keeps her away from the paps and so forth. Dont know how often he sees her now, but I think he still keeps her close. He should be with her because she likes him for himself and not his fame amd money unlike another brunette I could name..

Oh my god ! Kiefer is in love with this woman but he lives with an ugly and awful person whose name is Siobhan ! Sorry, but you only "think" or you "would like" he keeps this "vet" close.
The best of this story is that the vet loves Kiefer but she's not with him because of his fame etc... it sounds like Romeo and Juliet...Don't you think if Kiefer was in love with this girl he would be with her ? i don't say those 2 sightings are pure imagination but people often see what they want to see .
And you try to say he has thing for her but not for Sib... that's what i understand...

Hello...I'm sure I never read anything about SB living with Kiefer. Did I miss something? Did I miss the announcement about Kiefer being in love? Who said that?

No Tom Cruise announcement, like jumbing up & down on the sofa!!!

How many interviews has he done this pass few weeks. I did not HEAR one word of her name come out of Kiefer's mouth. What... is he not sure yet?

As far back as I can remember Kiefer never lived with any woman. Since when has Kiefer dated just one woman?

I think you need a reality check. Please, someone, anyone let me know if I'm wrong? Steer me to the announcement I missed.

Last I heard he was seeing Janet & SB. So what if Janet likes keeping things under the radar! Seems to me SB doesn't give 2 F's.

Anymonous .theres no need to get nasty!We all hearing stories from differnet sources,so no one got it exactly right!
All we know of Janet is that he sounds happy when hes in her company.he also enjoys Siobhans company but I dont think shes the only woman hes seeing and who says hes living with Siobhan! I have not heard that but then you seem to be the expert!and why dont you print name instead of hiding behind Anymonous.

For all we have heard is that this Janet does like stay under the radar . why have we not seen any pics of her yet we hear of sightings with him? .It does sound funny but thats the way she likes it and guess Kiefer does too.

Whos said anything about him being in love with this Janet or Janice!
He could be, but it probably is more lust... thats why he keeps her around ... same with Darla, Michael and Rocco and a host of others. Then they could be just innocent friends! Ha!

Hello !

Anonymous (post at 1:01 AM) i agree with you : who's said anything about him being in love with Janet or Janice ?
is there a source ? A person who knows this woman ?
Nina, OK, she wants to stay under the radar but they have been seen twice, so they don't hide. It's strange, people are sure there's something between this girl and Kiefer but don't want admit he is with Siobhan.
Kiefer will never give information about his love life during an interview. His last interviews were given to promote Mirrors. Do you see him saying :" yes, i'm with Siobhan, i love her and we live together." LOL.

I'm the Anonymous who wrote the 2 sightings Aug 15-1:44pm & the one who wrote Tom Cruise- Aug 15-10:51pm.
The 2 sightings came from the internet. I didn't make it up. People on this site were talking about it so I looked it up for them.

I never used the word "LOVE" in what I wrote about SB or Janet because Kiefer never used the word. He always said, "A person I "LIKE" alot. Never LOVE except with Julia or Kelly.

Nothing wrong in my opinion if one likes the spot light & the other doesn't. Big deal! The pics of Janet are out there but I can't put a name to some of them, at less 6.

Anony Aug 16-1:01am...You might be right, LUST for SB, Janet etc etc: or just all innocent friends. I can agree with that. Until something is announced by Kiefer, "Himself" I hope his having fun (not drinking) this summer!!

I have heard Kiefer mention personal things in interviews before about his love life. He would not go ON and ON (like Anonymous said at 7:11), but be a little bit more reserved. I heard him say "He is interested in someone at the moment, that he likes alot." He did not say beans in any interviews about SB or Janet. Why? Simple! He does not want to commit himself to a relationship with anyone yet. Not SURE!

There was a moment on ET that he could have said something to confirm him & SB but he did not take it.
ET Host...Will she face her fears and MIRRORS with YOU?
Kiefer said, "OH, you'll going to have to ask her that".
He could have said, "Of course".
(Someone wrote this from this site).

I agree with aKa (funny). I will wait for Kiefer to make the Hugegantic announcement.

Why should Kiefer limit himself to one woman when he can have many??? Oh I so wish I could be one of them. lol

I truly don't understand why people persist in believing that Kiefer needs to declare anything concerning what he is or isn't doing in his private life. Regardless of who he is with at any given moment, he owes no explanation or confirmation to press or fans. IMO, the lack of PDA may mean nothing more than the 2 people involved are mature (or secure) enough to no constantly be meshed together in the public eye.

KC

I do agree with most of your post KC, but there is something odd, imo, when you see 2 people who are supposed to be in a very serious relatiionship, who show little to no affection for each other in more than a hundred pictures taken from several different sightings.And not necessarily the physical PDA's, which people can refrain from doing, but the absence of any facial affection (on Kiefer's part mostly) You can't hide that 100% of the time imo. And if Kiefer doesn't want his private life to be questioned, maybe he shouldn't have paraded this woman to so many high profile places. It's hard to put the genie back in the bottle once you have let her out.

Lysette, i think on the beach pic where she's gonna kiss him or seems to kiss him we can see a physical PDA from him.
I remember just before the 1st april a sighting of Kiefer and Siobhan in LA and the person who had seen them said it was obvious they were not just friends...
Perhaps, when they see paparazzis or they feel watched, they act differently..we don't know. Just guess.

That could be ... it's just a little too much of a coincidence (for me, that is) that we never actually see that kiss. Funny how the paps missed that one. But having said that, of course they must be intimate at times. I would never dispute that. For me it's the lack of something in his eyes, in his expression, which makes me wonder just how serious he is about her. And the fact that he is still being spotted with other women. Strictly my feeling, but this screams to me of something that is much different than what we think we see.

We seen pics of Eva (golf girl) and Kiefer kissing, hugging and touching alot in those few pics and he didn't mind having his photo taken.

Kiefer gets close to someone when they are speaking because of his hearing. Did not see any kissing going on in any beach pics or any others with SB.

Never seen them touch at all except with her arm through his. He does that with his mother. Walking to have lunch in NY, and not once him touching her. He would rather be holding his smokes & cell phone. How many pockets in a pair of jeans!

Sorry, NOTHING going on with them. NOTHING THERE!! She's wishing she can be that "Genie in the Bottle". Well, get in line sweetheart.

what kiss on the beach are we talking about ? I didnt see that. and dont you think the paps would have caught that?.. not just leaning in for a kiss...Look, Im not saying they arent lovers but for a fairly new relationship one would think he would diplay more affection than hes done with her. he has with other women so I dont see what the problem is .

Speaking of affection I can recall pics of Kiefer in the water on a beach with a anonymous short haired topless blonde woman getting it on and kissing. . Theyre still floating around on the internet... I think it was in 04/05... and with Reiko he was often seen getting cosy with in public, and also with Catherine...With the golf girl the photos show him holding her hand and kissing her neck, as well as kissing her and his arms around her ... with Janet hes been described as having his arm around her and enjoying himself..so obviously he doenst have a problem displaying affection in public.. yet were to see that with Siobhan?..maybe shes stand-offish?...but if I was with Kiefer I would be all ove him!

Dont think the golf girl was Eva, though she does resemble her in the face. . Eva is super tiny , under 5ft I think, and the girl in pics is wearing flats and is comming up to Kiefers height, plus, shes too curvy as well.. wish I knew who she was!

Hello...This will sound strange but I was looking at the pics of Kiefer with the flipper boxes Posted on Aug 3. Across the pictures were the words "MAGAZINE FEATURES". I typed it into Yahoo and this is so wierd but came up with this address:...

Magazine Features
Unit 7 Draper Square
Draper Street, Claremont
Cape Town, 7700 South Africa

Now is this strange or what? Kiefer just did 24 in Cape Town.
This place is a leading photographic agency and it a successful agent for all those who want to find the best partner to sell images to. The Flipper & beach images??? I did not get the time to research National Photo Group where ALL the photos originally came from. Need some sleep! aKa

Kate the pics you're talking about with a blond woman on a beach are from 2000/2001 and even if he was kissing her we saw him with her just one time. It's the same case for the Golf girl. How to say that; for me they were just one night fling.
With this Janet or Janice, i didn't know his arm was around her. In the 2 sightings, there's no mention of that.
Kiefer has been seen with her in April and he was already with Siobhan, he has been seen with Darla in June and he's still with Siobhan. Don't you think those women are just friends and that Siobhan knows all about this. Me, i would be jealous if i was her.
Now, for the lack of PDA, there's a pic in NY where they walk hand in hand and in front of the Waverly inn , he almost put his arm round her waist.
Sorry, i don't have the same opinion of some people here but i respect their point of views.

Veronique . There was a sighting with Janice with his arm around her...Someone posted it on Deframer... No one is denying Kiefer and Siobhan arent lovers but he seems to be reframing from showing too much affection towards her in public .. nothing wrong with that either..

aKa...I do find it strange about the pics of beach & flipper pics coming from Magazine Features in CAPE TOWN, SOUTH AFICIA.

Kiefer was with SB (I think from stories I read) in Cape Town, she knows how to run photo's and that was back in June. Just saying, maybe.

I wonder if all the photo's of beach & flippers were done back then in June & done in Cape Town. No one has an official date for the pics.

So Magazine Features they find sights to sell the photo's images to? They can have them released whenever?

This is why everyone is questioning these pics about the posted on dates.
GOOD POINT...Cape Town in June, and 24 filmed there at the time. The address did turn up VERY VERY strange...

ok, anonymous, thanks for this info, i didn't know this sighting posted on defamer.

Interesting find...very odd about the address only there is one thing . In the pics he has his dog Jay Jay with him ..Surely he wouldnt take Jay Jay to South Africa? . then again, Maybe?...

The pics were taking here in Ca. before they went to Cape Town, South Aficia.

The pics were distributed by Magazine Features at there home base in Cape Town, S. Aficia.

They usually work with alot of Magazine People like Cosmopolitan, People Magazine, Globe Photos, etc:

The Beach & Flipper pics were done by a Professional Photographer not some Fan. The clarity on the pics were too good.
Maybe from her camp, since she works for a fashion Mag. Just a Guess, not saying it is true. Everyone can look it up for themselves.....aKa

About the woman with the umbrella photos... Anonymous, I didn't mean to say that she worked as Ironworks. She is a person who works with Ironworks, him when he's doing Ironworks business. I think the picture you're thinking of is in London, not NY but whichever place it is, it's Ironworks business. Are you saying that you don't think that he'd hold an umbrella for someone he works with? Of course, he would. Gentlemanly isn't just for people you're sleeping with.

I don't get why people want so bad to prove that he isn't with this lady. why does it matter so much?

Anonymous 7:32pm...The lady in the umbrella photo what is her name? Thanks!

10:07, I don't know her name. Someone who I believe who knows who she is told me that.

More beach pics have been posted this weekend..so they must be recent.. unless they're from the same period as the last ones.. but to me it looks like he was on beach again this weekend..

They look like the same ones, just more of them with Kiefer by himself. Again great clarity, professional. No fan & No paps photo's.

The photo's came from Profimedia, CZ and No description;
Taken with-unknown
Taken on-unknown
You can look it up yourself, no offical dates again. I hate that.

Sorry, to hear Kiefer's film MIRROR'S got bad reviews but what do they know.
I'm going to wait for it to come out on DVD. I don't think anyone wants to hear me scream in the movie theater. Good luck to the brave souls that are going & Kiefer.

Those are paparazzi photos and paparazzi photographers *are* professionals. Profimedia is a media site (one of many many many sites) that buys photos from paps.

We all know there are many media web sites like Profimedia. They also are in partnership with several of the biggest Photoagencies in the World. They do have photographer's available but these pics weren't done by them nor by The Paps.

These Photo's were done by a Professional Photographer & Ageny who have more control over how their images are distributed and used.

His camp are in control of these pics and getting royalty rates for the ones they sell. Why should the Paps get paid when celebrites can sell their own images. Its done all the time. Just throw in a scene or a girl and you have yourself some great photo's for the Web Fan Base & Magazines for people who don't have access to the internet. An way to promote yourself so people don't forget that your still alive. Kiefer coming back for the dead, but jail instead. Remember that's his quote! I find nothing wrong with this. Its the way Hollywood works.

So, it's your contention that *Kiefer* himself is selling these photos?

That's absurd.

Of course, there's a connection between publicity and the paps and the photo agencies and the entertainment sites and magazines, but that's not how it works and your distinction between "professional agencies/photographers" and "paparazzi" is incorrect.

... and since, of all the beach photographs that have been taken so far, exactly *one* has appeared in any kind of non-photo-site/non-fansite media (in the German O.K. magazine), I don't think your theory that he's selling these photos to "remind people that he's alive" holds much water. The fansites certainly don't need to be reminded that he's alive.

So, though I'm not sure exactly what it is that you're trying to prove, nice try... but no dice.

The beaches are flocked with people during the summer months and Kiefer is going to unleash his dog with other people on beach & the paps taken shots of him. I thought the beaches there were more private.

My 83 year old Great Aunt loves 24, she still thought Kiefer was in jail & 24 was over. Mags aren't buying his pics or info. If so, my Aunt would have realized that Kiefer was out of jail. I had to informed her that he was out.

Even the pics in NYC looked staged to me.

I'm a fan of Kiefer's but I'm not gullible either........

Yea, I'm not gullible either... like the Paps are sitting there just waiting for Kiefer to come home every day.

I'm still thinking the pics were done in early June. Your right, the beaches are crowded after the kids get out of school for the summer.

Isn't there a law about keeping dogs on their leash in a public place?

Again, No official dates on new pics.

You may not be gullible, but you're not very clear on the concept of how this stuff works either.

I absolutely think that the most recent photos, the ones that were posted yesterday, were posed... but what's most likely (in terms of how these things actually work as opposed to whatever conspiracy theory you're trying to support) is that he gave the pap access to posed shots as part of a "I'll give you these and then you'll go away" deal. It's a known fact that celebrities do that all the time. (And, since I do believe that the photos were posed for, I'm not sure Jayjay even was on the beach.)

... and I agree that some of the NY shots (the earliest ones with Siobhan) likely were tipped. That doesn't mean that all of them were and, in any case, even when photo ops are tipped to the paps, it's still the paps taking them. It's not photogs hired by the celebrities. There's no doubt that celebrities and the paparazzi have a symbiotic relationship. You haven't uncovered a big mystery there. You're just not understanding how it works.

I'm not surprised that an 83 year old may not have caught rush of publicity work, right up to and including major talk shows, that Kiefer's done in the past month+ or that she doesn't see the coverage that 24/Kiefer gets in TV Guide, but I don't think German O.K. was going to reach her either.

I'm sure everyone knows how the Paps work Christy they can't be that gullible. What your saying is that celebrities don't hire their own photographers. Well, you'll be surprise how often it is done, especially when some celebrities aren't getting the coverage they need, by the paps.

I'm sure Tori Spelling invited the paps to her poolside to take shots of her & her hubby. Some celebrities only wish they were followed around by the paps so they wouldn't have to hire outside photographers.

How many people already told you that the official dates are unknown from the source. Were you there at the right time & place for the pics? Do you know for sure the paps took the photo's? The shots were fake without JJ really being there?(laughing) I'm sure you know all the answers here.

Someone was very much in control in distributing the photo's. So many this week, some the following week & then ones of Kiefer alone. WOW!

83 yr. olds don't also stay up late to catch MAJOR talk shows or get TV guide. Its ashame Kiefer can't get more coverage in mags. that people like to read. Maybe when he promotes 24.
I wonder how many pics were taken of him at Ironworks in the 6 yrs, he lived there?

Funny thing about this discussion on whether or not celebrities hire paps. A friend of mine directed me to the imnotobsessed site today for a story on the breakup of Jennifer Anniston and John Mayer, who she claimed was in cahoots with the paps. I have no opinion one way or another about whether or not this is what Kiefer is doing, but the aticle was certainly timely.

I have to admit that while I truly believe all of these pics are recent (I don't doubt that fact) it does almost seem like Kiefer is arranging for photog access. Otherwise he is supposedly on a private beach so how does anyone explain all this access.

Also, not only have the pics come in the last two weeks while he has a new movie out plus Season 7 getting ready but it's the type of photos, e.g., 1) w/girlfriend; 2) w/family and 3) w/dog and looking very fit and trim, I might add. These all show Kiefer as a family man and homebody. That is an image I am sure that his bosses at Fox are all too happy to portray and considering the investment they have in him it would be understandable.

If this is the case I am not being critical of Kiefer. Publicity for a star is all part of this business and I think Kiefer knows this business well since he has spent basically his entire life in it. BTW, since Kiefer doesn't get the headline coverage like covers of People, etc. it would make even more sense to me that he would encourage more pics by the paps. It's a good way to get the postive image out without him even saying a word!!

Just my two cents for what it is worth, lol.

Im starting to question the dates of these pics too?...if they're recent which in reality they probably are.. why have we not heard or seen any more sightings of KIef and Sib in these last few months?..something casual like going out for dinner or lunch?.. that hasnt been heard of since Late June?... I dont think Kiefers looking for Publicity...Magazines dont pick up on him enough anyway..just liile tibits now and then..

2:07pm, I have never - not once (and you can check my posts for confirmation of that) - said that there isn't a relationship between celebrity publicity and the paparazzi. Of course, there is.

However, tipping the paps to available photo ops and/or making an agreement with paps to give them some shots in exchange for being left alone isn't the same as *hiring* photographers.

Celebrities pay their publicists to get them publicity and, yes, this is sometimes done by tipping paps to available photos.

No one who isn't clueless about how the world works would deny that.

All I'm saying is that you're not accurately understanding and/or representing how the relationship between paps and celebrity publicity works.

Hey, Lysette... just to be clear, there's no question in my mind that tipping of the paps goes on - and there probably are celebs who do it themselves (I've read that about Mayer before but don't really know anything about him so have no idea whether or not that's something that's likely to be true... or not).

Certainly, publicists do it. Who knows for sure (I think it could go either way), but I don't disagree that the beach pics could've been tipped by Kiefer's "people"... though I do somewhat differ with the perception that he's not getting enough publicity. I think he's getting a fairly appropriate amount of mid-range celeb publicity.

There's just, even then, a difference between either a celeb or his/her publicist tipping paps and the incorrect distinction that Anonymous @ 2:07 is making between paps and "professional photographers." That's all I'm saying. :)

I don't believe the pics are that recent. They had to be taken in late June sometime, because he was so busy promoting MIRRORS during the week and on weekends in July & Aug, plus working on 24.

Something unusual about all the NY & beach pic to me. Maybe it's something I haven't seen Kiefer do before. It doesn't seem honest or real to me.

Someone said that Kiefer, now lives in Malibu at the beach. Why would he want to let the paps know where he lived? He always liked his privacy. So, I'm beginning to believe that maybe he or Fox hired a Private Photographer for those pics.

Sorry, I just can't picture Kiefer sitting at the beach twiddling his thumbs waiting for the paps to get there. He would be the type to CALL THEM or WHOMEVER to get it "over with". He would probably be directing them(laugh). Then he would be on his way to a Rocco Concert to have some fun (hopefully not drinking) on his days off.

So... bottomline, the big goal here is to "prove" that the beach photographs were taken in June so as to "prove" that Siobhan isn't any part of his life at this point, right?

(Not that I know whether she still is or isn't or exactly what part of his life she's ever been - or vice versa - but I'm also not invested to the death in proving that she's not. ;))

Sure. but arent you curious as to why theres no recent NY pics.. He was in NY for all those interviews,Yet no Sib?...Just curious..

This whole Siobhan thing is very interesting. The ones who don't like her seem to feel she has manipulated her way into his life for all the wrong reasons, and the ones who do like her seem to love all the pictures they are getting of Kiefer in this relationship. Since nobody knows for certain what the real story is, neither side should dismiss the other out of hand. For the record, I am firmly ensconced in the first group.

2:08, don't know, but... maybe she was in LA when he was in NY. If the August 6th date for those photos (which I don't see the big reason to doubt) is correct, that's certainly possible.

Lysette, just speaking for myself, I'm in a third group. I don't know Siobhan (or feel like I know enough about her from afar even) to have a personal opinion about whether I "like" her or "don't like" her. I certainly don't feel like I know enough about her from afar to guess at her motives (or his) regarding the time they're spending together.

I actually think that there are a lot of Kiefer fans in that third group. I certainly know many of them myself.

So, yes, I love to see pictures of Kiefer with her, but the why of that is simple and has nothing to do with her specifically: it's that I just love to see pictures of Kiefer, period. :)

LOL Christy, why did I know you would say that. Whatever, I won't belabor the point because it will only end up where it usually does.

Sorry, that was me.

Lysette, I would guess that you knew that would be my response because it's what I've said consistently (and over and over) about the subject all along. (Along with saying that, if this is something that he/she/they want, I wish them well... which isn't about knowing whether I, personally, "like" or "don't like" Siobhan... since I don't know her... even from afar.)

Evidently, you've been paying attention! ;)

*sigh*

I just saw some video of him outside a strip joint in LA last night, and it appears he had been drinking. Oh man. I read on one of the blogs that someone is wondering if he was at a bachelor party ... and that they're happy he's out having fun. Sorry, this kind of depresses me.
Wonder what happened to ole Siobhan.

These photos make me sad too. He's just such a dignified guy... except for when he so isn't. As for "boys will be boys", imo, he's not a boy. He's a 41 year old man. A 41 year old man with, imo, a severe drinking problem.

So, yeah... on this (the "depressing" thing, that is), we agree, Lysette.

I actually agree with you Christy. This is a really wonderful man, imo, with a big problem. I'm still rather blown away with some of the comments I have read elsewhere; that he's just having fun and good for him. Color me bewildered.

Lysette...I feel the same way, I just want to sigh!!!

Christy...You are the most dense person on this site. You deliberately turn every bodies comments back to SB over and over again. Its becoming nauseating! I don't think your a fan of Kiefer's at all. You sound like your in love with this SB and like seeing "her" in the pics, more so then Kiefer.

Please..."Everybody" I make a comment Aug 19 @ 7:57 pm, did I mention SB at all in that post? Christy made an response to it @8:37 pm. How in the world did she interpret "SB", in the point I was making about all the pics.

She is just brilliant when interpreting everyones comments. NOT REALLY!

I think they are going to put the pic of Kiefer Drunk on this web site X17 because I had a hard time getting on. The pic is copy right by X17. The people that don't like him are going to love it and I'm going to hate the comments.

Maybe he was not drunk, just having some fun. The copy date is on the 19th. I checked to see if it was a old pic. BBBenny told people in the chat room not to talk about it but its out now.

I think he could still be in denial about his addiction to drink. He thinks he has it under control but he hasnt. But thats his business and he has to sort that out for himself... Of course hes only human and he's going to fall down sometimes.. but to be seen drunk outside a strip club so soon after his drink driving arrest , it is kinda sad.. the critics are going to have a field day on this one!..

Obvioulsy, he doesnt care what people think..Its his life and he'll do what he wants..maybe it wasnt actually the stip club he went to ( wishful thinking!!)..after all the post did say he was seen 'outside' the club with a group of guys talking about all things, basketball..At least he wasnt driving.. thats one good thing!

Lyn, I was doing some wishful thinking too but did you see all the pics, the one with his pants unbutton. I'm thinking maybe he was drinking alot not to realize that.

I'm mad at the friends he was with for not bringing it to his attention. What kind of friends does he have that will not look after him at least a little bit, especially because of his public image. I thought that what friends were for. My friends look out for one another.

I don't think he got his licenses back yet. I think it was for 18 months. He has to complete all his programs first, (not sure about this). Whatever, I'm also glad he was not driving.

It is his business but I wonder how many other times has he done this since getting out of jail that no one knows about. I know of 3. Its sad! I don't want to hear the nasty comments and X17 are the ones who have the pics.

Hi Anonymous. Yes I have now seen the added photos..doesnt look good..
Also I think his license was only suspended for six months (also not sure)
and the programs were for 18 months.
I wouldnt be surprised however if he wasnt attending any of them ..Oh well..same ole Kiefer!

Lyn, This AN@8:36. I hope you can take some time out of your day and read what I posted as a comment on the site X17 with Kiefer drunk. It's the one about Kiefer spending the rest of his life in a "Rocking Chair" and how we wish we could all have gone out a had alittle bit of fun like Kiefer did. I was hoping to discourage anyone from writing any thing nasty about him.

I'm almost afraid to check back and see if anyone wrote something wise back about my comment. I might have encouraged instead of discouraged.

Its to early for me to look just yet. Would like to enjoy my coffee first (laugh). I'll check back with you later. Have a nice day...Joyce

This comment has nothing to do with the new pic of Kiefer Drunk in anyway, sharp or form because I like him!

I think Christy can see now, what a Pap shot is and an staged one on the beach.

A Professional Photograph is like the ones on the beach. Picture in your mind, models... male or female having their photo shoots done on a beach for a layout in a Magazine. Now, just picture Kiefer pics but they made them look a little bit like the Paps took them. The quality were to good to be from the Paps.

The last pics of Kiefer running were done by a movie camera, not one that you would buy but one from a movie set. You can't click a camera fast enough without getting blur shots. They took the movie clips and made them into still photos.

My point for this is simple. I don't recall Kiefer or his Publicist ever doing something like this before. I think it was to show us a well behaved Kiefer and he needed more coverage before his movie for his Fan base. Kiefer has always been more honest then that. Or maybe, his girlfriends idea since she does layouts for magazines. Bad idea!

The Paps would not be carrying ALL that equipment with them in their backpacks walking onto a private sandy beach.

Regardless of whether or not every one of the photos was tipped and/or posed (which isn't impossible) or not, the distinction you're making between paparazzi and Professional Photographers is just plain incorrect.

Paparazzi *are* professional photographers. They have top of the line equipment and skills and, yes, sometimes they are tipped by publicists.

Your ignorance on this subject really shows when you say that the running shots would've had to be taken with a movie camera. No. Still cameras, in the hands of a skilled photographer (which paps are... because they *are* professional photographers... i.e., they make their living as photographers), certainly can and do take action shots. I recommend to you the entire body of sports action photography as evidence of that indisputable fact.

Let's say for a second that all of the shots in NY and all of these beach shots were planned/tipped (which, because showbiz *is* showbiz, isn't impossible). If so, in answer to your wondering about why this hasn't been common (though I also think it hasn't been unheard of) with Kiefer before, I'd offer... well, Kiefer never spent 48 days in jail after being convicted of a third DUI before either.

Now, I think I have the answer to why everyone believed the photos of Kiefer & his ex girlfriend looked staged. I don't remember the Paps taking alot of nasty pics of Kiefer before. It would seem he was well liked by them. I'm beginning to wonder whether he did something to anger them. The Paps didn't go after Kiefer that much when he first got out of jail. The photos they did take were just of him (not girlfriend) on a few streets in LA & NY. Not nasty ones.

I can believe now, that SB had her photo people taking the pics of her & Kiefer. In doing this, they cut the Paps out of some money. It would seen the Paps are out to pay him back by exposing nasty pics of him now. They say, "The Paps can either make you or break you"!
I feel bad for Kiefer because I think they are going after him until he makes good with them.
X17 was blocking me from getting to any sites of Kiefer except the newest pic of him drunk. Just a bad feeling I have but really hope it is not the case.
Joyce

The paps are "going after" Kiefer because they posted a couple of unflattering shots of him? I don't think so.

x17 is hard to navigate but all the pics of Kiefer still are here.

There have been lots of unflattering pics of Kiefer published in the past.

Kiefer sighted at Dans subs in the valley, posted Friday. He was with Gary oldman and two brunettes. Apparantly he looked exhausted, the poor thing.. too many late nights at strip clubs?! (just kidding) .. wonder if one of the brunettes was Janet or Janice? as this is one of the places hes taken her to in the past... could be Siobhan?. ..or even Darla.. then again, who knows how many brunettes he Knows!..

Sorry, forgot to mention there was two brunettes with them..

Crap! No I didnt!.. OK IM GOING NOW.. ITS BEEN A LONG DAY!

Alot of people knew that Kiefer was not ready to commit himself to one person or he wouldn't have gone to a strip club. Relapse! No, he had to know where he was going that night, a place where he shouldn't be with his drinking problem. It's where he wanted to be.

In my opinion SB has been history since June when he was with Darla, maybe Darla was the one at Dan's, back in April and this time. I still believe the pics of beach etc: are "old", going back to late June.

Whether it was with SB, Darla or whomever. In my opinion whether anyone wishes to hear it or not, I always felt Kiefer wasn't ready to be in a serious relationship until he got his drinking problem under control. It takes time and I know people who have stopped cold turkey. He doesn't want to!

I wish Kiefer nothing but the best of luck, he seems like a nice guy in his interviews and in reading articles that other people have said, about him.
I can't wait for 24.

WOW.....Who can blame Kiefer for leaving this middle-aged old hag for the hot young striper he was talking to outside Cheetah's, she's the one who gave him that Lap dance & much much more. He sure did look excited after that!

Well.. I Have to say now Im convinced that he and SB are no longer an item..and the beach pics are older pics that had recently been posted. Its too long that we have had a proper sighting to think otherwise....
Maybe she was tipping of the paps after all, and he figured it out or as the pics of them seem to show there was no chemistry there...
whatever the case I think hes back on the singles market..

Having said all this it will just my luck that SB suddenly appears again!!..

Sorry to disapoint you - SB IS living in his house in Malibu! I'm always at this part of the beach (since years, not because of Kiefer, so I'm not a "stalker" or something!), and I've seen her there,just again yesterday, also seen him and her last week - no paps around, nothing - but still no PDA! So whatever "relationship" they have, she IS with him, but I still doubt it's love on his site.... But who knows?

Anonymous (11:03), you confirm what we guess, they live together. Thank you. I think Kiefer would not live with her if it
is not a serious relationship. Now, she seems to have a big place in his life and i wish them happiness.

A big place in his life? I hope you're kidding. I have no idea what exactly their relationship is, but I can tell you one thing; when a man's special lady comes across the country to spend some time with him at his becah house and he then shows up at a strip club with some floozie, well, um, not something to be happy about imo. I for a time thought their relationship might be serious, but this last month has convinced me otherwise. I think this is just a relationhip of convenience for both of them. No love at all. He gets a pretty girl on his arm when he wants one, and she gets to live the high life on his dime.

Sorry but Im not convinced. Theres been no pics of them for ages. And I dont think she would just get up and leave her job suddenly which is in NY.
The fact that he went recently to a strip club also makes me doubt... until more pics emerge I will not be convinced.

Lysette, I am with you. I have been convinced after the last few weeks that this is a relationship of understanding of some sort. Not even sure love has anything to do with it. It may have started out that way but who knows. Afterall we are talking about Hollywood here.

She seems to be in it for the fame and access and he loves to always have a pretty woman on his arm. Plus, he leads a rather interesting life so at least publicly he can sport a cleaned up image. She is certainly living the high life as you say on his dime and he has a ready made date. However, as we saw from the recent strip club sighting, well I don't need to go further, do I?

I have stated before I believe Siobhan has been tipping off the paps all along cause she loves the camera and loves the fame.

Time will tell on this well. In the meantime, this is a relationship that has caused much debate. Bet Kiefer would be amused, lol!!

Kiefer going to a strip joint also has made me question the nature of this relationship.. for such a 'newish' relationship one would think he wound'nt go to a strip club if he was happy ?... I think its a big statment to her that says 'you dont own me and I can do what I want, go where I want, and see who I want'..

This is from one of the celebrity websites. Not sure if it's them but sure does sound like it. However, whether it is or isn't goes back to all the postings on tipoffs to the paps.

Today's blind item comes from Buzz Foto...

Everyone has been speculating that this star calls the paps when they go out. Sorry, but if you’re assuming this, you’re assuming wrong. Oh, that doesn’t mean calls aren’t being made, because they are. They just aren’t coming from the star. The star is actually annoyed that they can’t seem to escape the snapping of the cameras. How is it that the camera always finds our star? Maybe our star should ask their best companion who is or was seen with the star lots and lots. Funny how the two were together in all the fotos. When honesty can’t always be the key factor in a relationship, becoming famous can. Oh the shame and deceit! Could it really be true?

Any guesses?

Interesting. Even if its not about Kiefer it certainly rings true.

In my opinion 'calls' are or were being made . Not by Kiefer. but we do suspect who...

Pleazzzzzzzze!!!

The Buzz Foto blind items give you the possibilities and Kiefer isn't one of them. *rolls eyes*

If those of you dissing him and his life choices were really fans you wouldn't be dragging his personal life through the tabloid mud.

Have some respect.

And as for Kiefer being amused?!?!?!

Would any of you be *amused* if it were your life being dissected and run through the mud like you are doing to his?

With fans like this who needs enemies.

Sheeeesh!

Hey 1:22, try not taking it so personal; I really don't think Kiefer does and btw, how do you know the buzz foto is or isn't. If you read my post, you would have seen that I made that point but why should you read when you could just react.

Btw, I do believe Siobhan is tipping off the paps and that is a reflection of her, not Kiefer.

As a matter of fact I believe this tipping off goes all the way back to when we first saw them together in August 2007. He seemingly took her to an out of the way place for lunch yet there were the photogs all ready to go and Siobhan was ready for her closeups. The photos turned up in Hello Magagzine. A few days later Kiefer again took her out and this time for dinner at another seemingly out of the way place called Cafe Stella (noted by TMZ) and there was TMZ ready with their cameras. Once again, Siobhan in tow. Coincidence?????

This is a man, Mr. Sutherland is, who goes out all the time with women and we never see photogs except, of course, when Siobhan is around. Not saying for sure this blind item is them although nothing saying it isn't but that doesn't change my opinion on the matter.

Hey 4:50, and what point would that be?

That you intentionally posted a blind item post from a pap site to purposefully stir the hate pot?

That point?

And then added your own opinion that it sure sounds like them EVEN if it's not.

That point?

Oh and I read what you wrote and sadly I've read much of what others have written here and elsewhere too.

It's pretty sad imo.

But if you're cool with stirring the pot of crap you all are cooking and you don't mind the stench, please have it.

But it can't be surprising that not everyone is willing to sit down and eat it with you.

Enjoy the slop! ;)

To 6:10 The place in August 2007 isn't an out of the way place. It's in the heart of trendy Los Feliz, not far from where he lives. He's been photographed there on other occasions too.

Where he hangs out in NYC is another extremely trendy place to live and see STARS. The restaurant he went to is known for paps.

If anyone was tipping those early April sightings and his re-emergence after his jail stint it's been his people imo. He's been doing a really good job rebuilding his image leading up to his honest and open appearance on Letterman.

At the same time, he appears to be trying to build a relationship and move on with his life as he's been quoted as doing.

Who knows what his and her relationship is, has been, or will be. I certainly don't know and neither does anyone else posting here.

So why try to tear it down?

The problem with guessing that the Buzz Foto blind item is Kiefer & Siobhan is that it works from the assumption that non-Kiefer fans have any idea that the two of them have been photographed together more than once or twice (if they even know that much). Less than a handful of their photographed-together moments have appeared in media... and mostly then only on small websites. The fact that we, as Kiefer fans, see more photos (which, by my math, still comprise a teeny percentage of the time since April... and who knows how long before that they were spending time together) simply speaks to the fact that we seek them out.

My guess is that the response of the average Buzz Foto reader would be along the lines of "Kiefer and who now? Huh?" Because outside of the realm of Kiefer fandom, this isn't a well-publicized relationship.

... which to me, along with other factors, kinda argues against the idea that Siobhan is "in it for the fame" too. I have no idea what their relationship is or isn't, if she still is in LA (and has been for quite awhile now), it seems to me like she's keeping a very low profile.

Maybe it seems like she's keeping a low profile, but maybe they aren't spending a lot of time together. And of course, his recent strip club outing would be quite obnoxiious if she is still there.

Hey 7:36 I simply posted a blind item and stated my opinion which is all it is. There are many fans who have believed all along that she is tipping off the paps because the pattern for Kiefer in the past has not been this many photographs especially with women.

Btw, I know that part of NYC very well and you should know that Kiefer has made many trips there totally under the radar without pics that is, of course, until Siobhan came on the scene. Btw, that also goes for his LA neighborhood. Kiefer goes out all the time. You mean you have seen that many photogs of him through the years. Most of the pics previously of Kiefer were by fans not professionals.

Hey unless you are Siobhan or one of her Fashionista friends why are you getting so bothered if people state an opinion of her. She is a fashionista, why would you be so surprised that she isn't the best of peeps!!

Oh and how much of a relationship is he building if he is hanging out with strippers. Wow, that's some stable relationship. NO, my guess is Siobhan is perfectly fine with all of it as she gets to live of the Kief and his money!!

Hey 6:29 while I stated my opinion in this post, which last time I checked everyone (even you) have a right to do, I also stated that I posted it as part of the discussion we were all having earlier about how photographers work.

IMHO, this blurb fed right into what some where saying that the stars or people they are with are sometimes the ones responsible for having their own pics taken. It happens. It is not always coicidence that photogs are just there.

I agree with you Linda. Kiefer gets his strippers when he wants them and she gets his money and access.

Do you all even read what you write?

Is it something to be proud of?

Yes you are entitled to your opinion and from what I can see that opinion isn't very favorable of Kiefer or his life.

Unbelievable.

2:44 and yes stars and other people do tip photogs. But instead of seeing that it could actually be Kiefer's people doing the tipping the gf hate assumes it could ONLY have been her. Discounting that he's come off a difficult year image wise and maybe, just maybe its been him on occasion.

To not think that this last year has been far different than other years for him is being naive. It's therefore not a stretch at all to think that perhaps he'd make use of the media to repair any public perception problems that may remain. He is afterall a business commodity and his financial worth is as much image based as it is talent based.

As for the posting of the blind item - it's my opinion that it wasn't merely putting it out there for discussion purposes - it was put out there to feed the hate.

But whatever.

I've followed Kiefer's career since 24 began. I find him to be an incredible actor and a decent, humble man. Someone who never says anything negative about others and takes personal responsibility for his actions and decisions.

Too bad some of his fans can't be as gracious and learn from his example.

All I wish for him is good health, happiness and peace. And that he can continue to do what he loves and because that includes acting and music I get to enjoy the fruits of his labor. :)

his life, not yours - Get over yourself!!! Sorry, you do not have a monopoloy on wishing Kiefer well. This is an internet site that focuses on famous people and their comings and goings, so why wouldn't folks post their opinions here? Nobody has called Kiefer an axe murderer or his gf a filthy name ... people are just "discussing" that's all. Your holier than thou lecturing is quite boring.

11:02!

Sorry you don't like what you see in the mirror.

I've got my opinion, you've got yours.

'Discuss' all you want. And I'll keep holding up that mirror.

How's that?

I quite like what I see in the mirror; sorry to disappoint you. And thanks for the permission to "discuss" LOL

Appearently Mr. Sutherland had a day off today - saw him at Malibu beach with his so-called "girlfriend" and another couple - Mr. Sutherland enjoyed water, waves, his dog and a drink - but no PDA towards his "girlfriend" - not at all, in fact, he couldn't have cared less...

So was it is 'real' girlfriend or one of the other so-called brunette girlfriends you all are talking about? And by drink - do you mean a drink or a drink? heh! And how is JayJay these days? Any signs of paps for future pics? And hey, I thought you couldn't have a dog on the beach during the summer.

There a hundreds of dogs at the beach... And yes, it was SB, no other brunette around. JayJay (seems they don't call him JayJay but "Ado" or something like this) looked fine, about the drink - dunno, he had a bottle in his hand, no water bottle, but could be something else "harmless".. No signs of paps, but I wasn't close enough to be sure of this.

oops - sorry, there WERE paps around - check out justjared.com!

ZOMG!!! You saw him wet and half naked! AND you sound so calm about it all?!!?! *dies* Thanks for the photo tip ;)

5:51, funny that you weren't close enough to see paps, but you were somehow close enough to know that he "couldn't care less" about Siobhan. Seems like you'd have to be close enough to talk to him to know that since you'd have to ask him.

totally agree with you 8:21.

8:21PM: it seems 5:51 - (Why doesnt anyone print their name!?) saw no PDA from Kiefer from where she was standing .. nothing unusual about that. It sounds like he was enjoying the company of friends more that anything else?..

When paps take private pics of stars the majority of them hide behind bushes and in cars,etc. Thats why some celebs go ballistic when they spot them..its an invasion of privacy, as you know .
(Kiefer is probably too polite to react)... And its probably the reason 5:51 didnt see them.

5:51 again. I just used not seeing the pap as an example. I could have said "how could you not have been able to tell what he was drinking but you could tell what he was thinking". The point was that even if she didn't see PDA, she can't know what was in his head unless she asked him. Maybe they are just friends. if that's true, Kiefer's not a very good friend if he "couldn't care less" about his friend, is he?

So where are the pictures of the gf? Don't tell me she's suddenly gone camera shy, LOL.

or maybe she's never been as much about the camera as those who can't see clearly through their green eyeballs think she is.

Or maybe it's gonna snow in Malibu tonight,NOT!!!
Green eyeballs? Oh what a mean thing to say, hehehe.

maybe mean. definitely true.

Oh please..true in who's eyes? yours? In my top million things to care about, this doesn't come close to making the list. But if it makes you feel proud and excited to say it, knock your socks off honey.

So you dealt with a million other things today before you got around to following this thread and posting here? wow, you're good.

I am good, aren't I? Thanks for admitting that!

oh yes. very good at being at jealous and bitchy about someone you don't know.

You know nothing about me, and with this I am out of here, That should make you very happy since you seem to have nothing better to do than police the internet for things you find offensive.

Someone is posting on other site (JustJared) that Kiefer was seen with another woman, not Siobhan, over the last couple of weeks.

Not sure what to make of it but he sure is hard to keep track of.

Hopefully we get pics soon..

How about video? There's video on both showbiz.sky.com and youtube from over Labor Day weekend that include Siobhan and Kiefer in the surf off the beach in Malibu.

I think that footage is going back a couple of weeks ago when we had all those pics of her on the beach. Not saying shes not there, but I havent seen pics of her yet from the labor day weekend. Its all been Kiefer with some male pal..

The video doesn't go back a couple of weeks. Someone who was there - and has posted this in a couple of different places and who isn't a fan of Siobhan's so has no reason to make this up - saw exactly what was on the video... and it was this past weekend.

Is she still there? Who knows? The same person says that the house has looked deserted for the past couple of days. Maybe they just rented it for the month of August. Dunno. Just a guess. But, in any case, she was there last weekend.

Is the Miami beach house still deserted?

You mean the Malibu house?

Yes.

It seems that they just rented it. Probably just for the month of August.

kiefer is so not right for her hes fourty one and shes thirty five

has anyone seen desert saints with kiefer in it doesnt want u to kiss him

and besides he broken up with her because she said something bad about kiefers daughter sarah

She didnt say anything bad about Sarah. He wouldnt still be with her is she did.. the magazines made that up (surprise!)
Still dont know what her motives are given what others have said about her..whether shes in it for money or love I think Kiefer can take care of himself and is a big enough boy to make his own choices...

Hes been seen with other women while hes with her.. so his motives arent exactly clear either!!

OK. Kiefer himself has said he has no plans to marry. (The statement is on Bennys Blog)
Maybe now all the rumours will be put to rest.

Have watched this thread since the beginning. It's kind of like watching a train wreck - you know you shouldn't but you can't seem to tear yourself away.

Mostly I feel overwhelming disappointment at the way some women continue to view and talk about other women. It's very disheartening to see this kind of stereotyping of ourselves in the 21st century.

And although facts seem to be blithely ignored, thought I'd interject a correction to the previous post which said "Kiefer himself has said he has no plans to marry." If you're going to attribute a statement to someone, isn't it easier to use the actual words? Otherwise, it just morphs into the internet version of post office resulting in gobbledy-gook. And in this case, the "actual words" represent the best shot at an amateur translation by some nice people willing to take a shot.

"Q: Rumor has it that you will soon get married to the recently divorced Siobhan Bonnouvrier, an American journalist. Is that true?

A: No. I am single and I feel good about myself. I have been married twice (his second divorce was made official in May). I think it's useless to rush and tie the knot. At my age, I'd rather enjoy the good times. I've also learned to be as discrete as possible about my love life. To shut up! There is nothing worse, than when a relationship ends, than to have to spill the details."

Now taking into account that this is a translation and it's possible nuances may have been lost or misinterpreted, let's see what the facts actually are.

1. The interview took place at ComicCon on Friday, July 25th in terms of placing it in the time line.

2. His statement represents a change from the Playboy interview in February 2004 where Kiefer said, "Marriage is not something I want to again. I took a couple of swings at it and struck out. I'm done." Now he says, "... it's useless to rush and tie the knot". So, he now holds out the possibility of eventually marrying someone at some point in time with some potential person - useless to "rush" is a marked change from "I'm done".

3. He certainly has walked the walk since Julia in terms of discretion and keeping his private life private. Between Kelly, Catherine, Trisha and Siobhan, there have been fewer than 20 photos and articles published outside the tabloids or photo services. That's over a period of 14+ years. Pretty impressive for anyone living in the public eye.

4. Kiefer has made (or had made on his behalf) four direct statements about his personal life in those 14 years:

a. The press conference the day before he married Kelly.
b. Flying back from Hawaii (where he was filming To End All Wars) to appear on ET and squelch the rumors that Kelly was an unfit mother and that he had taken out a restraining order when his attorney checked a box incorrectly in the initial divorce filing. He apologized profusely on camera and said he had retained a different attorney.
c. Being interviewed on ET Thanksgiving weekend 2002 saying it would be impossible for him to be engaged since he was still married.
d. Having his PR people issue a denial early in the summer that he was engaged to "his girlfriend, Siobhan Bonnouvrier" which he answers here for a different audience (American/French).

5. In stating that Siobhan was his "girlfriend", it was the first time his PR team has used the word girlfriend to describe anyone since Kelly. There was never a direct quote (People magazine said quietly dating) about Catherine until, again in the Playboy interview, Kiefer used the past tense to say he had had "a girlfriend for a year" without actually naming her. (A sign of discretion) Kiefer only referred to Trisha once (at the DVD launch party a month before their only other public appearance at the Golden Globes) as a "friend" - not by name. (Possibily another example of listening to his inner voice to Shut up!)

So - the only rumor I knew of about marrying Siobhan originated in a single tabloid which did what tabloids want to do - wreck havoc among those who seem to have already decided one way or another what's best and/or what's the truth.

The truth is that nobody knows outside of Kiefer and Siobhan. And that is a fact.

**Opinion to follow**
I hope Kiefer finds peace and happiness. If that happens to include Siobhan, with whom he has been seen for over a year, great. If it's with someone else or in his own company, that would be great too.

I thought I entered my name, but obviously it didn't take........ along with most of my comments.

This and the post above are from Marbeth.

My basic comment is that "it's useless to rush and tie the knot" is very different from the 2004 Playboy interview where he said, "Marriage isn't something I want to do again. I took two swings and struck out. I'm done."

Now, he's leaving open the possibility of marriage at some point in time in the future to someone. That's a real change in thought. (And speaks absolutely nothing one way or the other about Siobhan. Just that he can foresee marriage as an option is a change.)

The other point is that he's certainly practiced discretion in terms of his relationships since Julia. Between Kelly, Catherine, Trisha and Siobhan, there have been fewer than 20 articles and photos not from tabloids or press photo sites. That's over a period of 14+ years.

Signing it again ........ just in case. Marbeth

Actually, Marbeth, didn't Kiefer's publicist say that he's not engaged to his "current" girlfriend. That,I think, is an important qualifer. I don't know what it's supposed to mean, but it's important. And didn't he say in the Rolling Stone article (2006, I believe) that he wasn't thinking of marriage while he was doing "24". Maybe he's softened his stance on that one, gradually through the years. Just a couple of thoughts.

When I said Kiefer has spoken that he has no plans to marry. I didnt mean it as 'never again'.
I was just trying to point out that Kiefer was clearing up the 'recent rumours' that had been doing the rounds on the internet, that he plans to marry Siobhan soon..Not true according to him ..

Actually here we go again with the marriage rumours!.. this time ET Canada may have started something.. it showed footage of Siobhan wearing a ring on her left hand.. still the reps for Kiefer are denying any engagement..
Besides wearing a ring on your left hand doesnt always mean anything.. I wear a ring on my left hand on occasion and Im not engaged!..

I know many people who wear rings on that finger without being engaged or married. :)

One misconception that I've seen on some Kiefer boards (not saying that anyone posting here thinks this) is that the interview in which Kiefer said he's "single" (which, to me, can mean all kinds of things, including most likely that Kiefer's exercising his discretion - as he mentioned in the quote too - in terms of talking about his love life), is that the interview is very recent. Actually, it's from Comic Con in July.

Whether what he and Siobhan are doing is serious or not, they've certainly spent time together - including what seemed to be most or all of August in Malibu and the sighting in NY - since that interview.

July qualifies as still recent to me. I know hes exercising discretion but
To say Im 'single' after all those NY, London and LA sightings with Sib is a bit odd ?.

I guess that it doesn't seem odd to me both because I've never had a definitive opinion about what the nature of their relationship is (or isn't) anyway and because he is technically single and, well, yeah.... the discretion thing.

To me, it is and always has been a "who knows?" dealie and all we really can know from afar is that, as of at least last Saturday, they still were spending time together... in whatever way.

I don't disagree that July is relatively recent (and I absolutely believe that they're not engaged). I've just read on a couple of boards that he "just said" that he's single in a way that made me think that the people posting that might think that he gave this interview the day it was published (or just before) and that's not correct. That's all. :)

i think they will soon be engaged, just my opinion...What Kiefer would have bought this big house in NY for ? It is NOT a house for a single man. He used to have an appart in this town ...

I have no idea what is/isn't or will/won't happen with Kiefer and Siobhan, but I don't think it's odd that he'd buy this townhouse whether or not he's planning on sharing it with her (or anyone). Kiefer's really wealthy and, by his wealth's standards, that house honest to goodness isn't *that* big. :)

The pics of Kiefer and Sib at Michael Thompson Exhibition Sept 11 on Benny site. Is Sib pregnant?

Don't think so. She was photographed a couple of days later, smoking a cigarette. Doubt she would do that in public if she was pregnant. I would certainly hope not, at any rate!!!

12:54 maybe the photos of a few days later with her smoking are old ones. She does look pregnant, don't you think?

The smoking photos, where besides smoking ,she doesn't look pregnant at all, were two days after the gallery photos. I don't think she looks pregnant at all.

Shes just very curvy around the waist. You can see that in the beach pics of her... Makes a change from all the skin and bones women you see a lot, these days.
.

Shes just very curvy around the waist. You can see that in the beach pics of her... Makes a change from all the skin and bones women you see a lot, these days.
.

Shes just very curvy around the waist. You can see that in the beach pics of her... Makes a change from all the skin and bones women you see a lot, these days.
.

Shes just very curvy around the waist. You can see that in the beach pics of her... Makes a change from all the skin and bones women you see a lot, these days.
.

Sorry about the triple posting!.. My computer was playing up!!

I remember in May that people were speculating that she had a baby bump. She seems to have a bit of a problem area around the waist. I think she's lucky to only have ONE problem area. LOL And yes, the pics of her smoking were taken September 13, for sure.

I'm sorry but are you looking at the pics from the Michael Thompson Exhibition on Sept 11? I was not talking about any baby bump with her smoking and with a white summer top on. In the black dress it looks more then just a problem around the waist area. I didn't think she was that large there, but it could be the dress. Maybe this is why she hasn't been seen much with Kiefer. I could be totally wrong!

I have been in Canada for 3 weeks and missed alot, still trying to catch up. Can someone catch me up on the strip club? Does this mean Kiefer and Sib broke up? Its hard to figure out because I'm not sure whether I'm seeing "new pics or old ones".

From 9/22 at 12:17 pm, Thanks so much!

Sorry again but forgot to put my name this time for 12:17 and 3:28.

Hi Emily. From what I gather, SB wore a certain style skirt or dress to the gallery opening which gave an illusion of puffiness around the waist - at least that's what many folks interpret it to be because there were photos of her taken 2 days later where she's in a white T and smoking a ciggie.

I personally think she just has a small issue around her midsection just as many middle-aged women do - many tend to bulge a bit in their midsections.

As far as Kiefer's strip club visit a month or so ago, it seems as if he paid that visit while SB was staying with him at the Malibu beach house. Some people have speculated that it may have been a bachelor party, because he attended the wedding of Dave from RDB about a week or so after the strip club visit.

Thanks for the info 3:54.

I would like to know if 24 is going to relocate in NY because of Kiefer buying a townhouse there or maybe Ironworks? I was reading a Mag. a few months back about TV shows wanting to relocate on the East coast because of cost in LA. I also read that the writers on 24 are bored with the story line in LA. I also read that Rocco is bigger on the East coast (alot of fans) that like his music. Has anything been mentioned about a new 24 season or about Rocco relocating? I did hear that Ironworks sign with another production com. in NY.

I would so much appreciate any update on this and about Kiefers new townhouse which I think is a great investment. Does anyone know where it is located?

Like I said, I have been away in Canada for awhile and I'm just trying to catch up with things in the States. Thanks so much everyone!

Emily, i think he has also bought this house to be next to or to live with Siobhan, just my opinion because when he's in NY, they are pictured together.
Whatever some people think, he seems to be happy with her. I'm surprised to read so bad things about this woman ...
She is very beautiful and she's with Kiefer, she's just a lucky girl. Those fans who don't like her are going to be very disappointed if one day, he would marry her. I say this because everytime we've got pics of them they say he doesn't care of her (no PDA) so why is he still with her after more than one year now ?

Nothing against Siobhan..just dont believe shes the only woman in his life..At party in LA this week just before the Emmys he was reportedly seen flirting with another woman at a party in LA, touching her neck, and 'giving her something' ( some have guessed it could have been his Ph No??)
The person who saw him thought at first it was Siobhan, but saw the woman get in to a car with another man while Kiefer returned to the party..
I think Siobhan was in NY at the time or why did she not attend the Emmys with him??...
I know shes with him but I dont think hes completely faithful to her..it seem she doesnt mind either and is willing to go along with whatever their relationship is..

It could have been Siobhan...Nothing to say it wasnt her.. maybe she left the party early because she had to return to NY?..could have been just a friend too... but then Kiefer does like to flirt at parties!!.. .and Beverly Hills is full of beautiful women!..
The person who saw him took photos so I hope she posts them so we can see who she was...curious.

Actually, Siobhan would most likely be in Europe right now, for fashion weeks in London, Milan and Paris. September is "the" month for fashion weeks.

agree with you 7:09, she could have been Siobhan or a friend . Why people always say he's unfaithful ? What i see today is a man who is happy in his life. He's with a very cute woman and do you really think he wants to go and see another woman ? hum... We have seen them in NY, LA, Paris (he went to see her there), London and Africa. They were in this house in Malibu and you always think he's unfaithful when she's not here ?! Why ?

Yes it seems he is still with her in some capacity right now, but I would hardly call this an exclusive relationship. Not only was there the strip club sighting while she was in Malibu, but he was also spotted at Dan's Subs with another woman and also for a walk on the beach with yet another woman. (both who were reported not to be Siobhan)

Sorry, but I totally disagree with Kiefer spending 8+mil. on a townhouse just to be near his girlfriend. He did not just start going to NY for her but because his daughter goes to college and lives there for the pass 4 years now. He also went there before his girlfriend because of business with Rocco and other bands. In my opinion he has developed strong business connections there in the past 4 years for the music industry, that he loves so much.
Plus he said someday he would love to do a play. He knows 24 will not be forever and he is looking for other investments. Kiefer knows that in his line of work, it will not last (the money). I believe he is into something else(investments) and we will not know probably until it happens.
He might change the townhouse back to units so he has a place to stay and the bands he wants to devolop, like Ironworks. This is just a guess of course.
He can't afford to send 8+M on a girl, would you if you were in his shoes? A man might spend that kind of money on a wife but not a girlfriend even if he does plan to marry her. He would wait! When Kiefer drinks, he has fun & with woman too. His big down fall.
Again just my opinion!

I agree about him buying the townhouse in NY is not just about Siobhan, but to be closer to his daughter and for other business ventures.. He also saw a great bargin when the house went on sale!

12:41pm - you ask why people think hes unfaithful?.. Because hes a celebity and he can!. He's been doing it for years.
He couldnt even be faithful to Julia Roberts!
A lot of people insist he's looking to change because hes getting older but hes only 41.
He himself has said in a recent interview that he has no plans to marry soon as hes been married twice, and also said at his age he'd "rather enjoy the good times" which I believe he is doing, not just with Siobhan but with others too . Theres been too many sighting of him with other women since hes been with Sib to say otherwise.. He hasn't been exactly discreet about it.

Kiefer has always denied his story with Amanda Rice ... and it's not because he has been seen with other women that he's automatically with them (since he is with Siobhan).
I can understand why some people expect it's not serious with this woman but perhaps he is very in love with her and he tries not to repeat his mistakes to keep her.

6:29 I had to laugh when you used the word "bargin" at 8+M. You and I probably could have bought 8-9 homes with that money or more anywhere else, but being NYC I guess your right. I think I really could have bought a small Island somewhere just to get away from the rat race. Ha! Ha!

Why did Rocco not go to his best friends wedding when the rest of the band was there? Dave and Rocco were childhood friends. Dave & Jenn were going together forever so the wedding must have been planned for awhile. Has anyone heard whether Kiefer and Rocco split up? There hasn't been anything about them or pics together for a long time. Did Jude take over Rocco's band? I know Kiefer has been busy but Rocco was always around somewhere. Is this the reason why Rocco did not go to his friends wedding because Kiefer was there?

If I know Kiefer he probably rented the beach house this summer because he had to work and wanted a place close by work to hangout with his friends for his summer vacation. He likes being around his friends but I didn't see any pics of Rocco there or heard anything. Does anyone know whats been going on with them? Has anyone else notice this?

I was away in Canada and was wondering whether I missed something with their relationship. Can anyone update me? Thanks!

I can't believe your using Dave's bachelor party as an excuse for Kiefer being at that Strip club. I myself can't believe Dave's friends would have a party there out of respect for Jenn. Dave is not a Kiefer, he has alot of respect for Jenn to be seen there in the first place.

I'm not sure where everyone is coming from or the age group on this site but young couples like Dave & Jenn are fore-going the B&B parties. They are doing a destination Jack N Jill party of going away for a 2 day weekend of fun with the whole wedding party & friends. They are being more sensible about drinking and driving and mainly out of respect for one another before their wedding day so know one gets into any trouble.
Maybe Kiefer didn't get that Memo.

Besides if Kiefer had any respect for his girlfriend he wouldn't have been there either. That memo also went over his head and into the trash. Kiefer will be Kiefer and if his girlfriend feels she is going to be the "one" to change him, well get in line with his 1st wife, Julia, 2nd wife, Catherine, 2nd wife again, Tricia, etc: or even his daughter, mother & father. Well good luck to her if she thinks she is the "ONE". Meanwhile she will be the one to lose that time in her life, not Kiefer.

oh come on .. do you really believe Kiefer has been with other woman and nothing is happening?..even though he has a girlfriend.
Kiefer lives in a different world from us and temptation is everywhere. He only has to call up a woman and shes there!

Of Course he would deny the story about Amanda Rice. Hes not going to admit to an affair to the public when he was engaged to Julia.
But I believe Julia wouldnt have left him if he hadnt because she was very much in love with him.
He even said years later that he "blew it" with Julia . I think thats the closest he came to admitting to it.

You people crack me up. Not one of you has any idea what's going on in Kiefer's life now or what went on it in in the past. You don't know what he wants or what he's doing and you don't know what the women in his life want or what they're doing. But damn that sure doesn't keep you from talking like you know everything about all of those things. Except for a few people it seems like everyone's either so green with jealousy that they can't see straight or is just mad at him for being famous or something else negative. So much negativity.

He's gorgeous and sexy and talented and he's doing whatever the hell he wants with his life without checking in with any of you. The women he's with obviously are getting a taste of something a lot of you wish you could and I'm sure they couldn't give a flying fig what any of you think of them.

Hilarious.

obviously someone touched a nerve with you or you wouldnt have wrote something that is spiteful but then who give flying fig what you think.
People here are entittled to their opinions without someone like you attacking them for it.

I agree. A lot of these posts are only done in fun . Of course nobody know whats really going on!
We can only guess and spectulate. But they dont need someone else to come along and attack them for it.

The post by Lissa appears to be critizing the content of many of the posts not whether people have a right to their opinions and I agree. Many of the posts have an undertone of jealousy and nastiness and certainly do not appear to be in fun.

12:41, Your right someone did touch a nerve with Lissa and it was a bad attack. I think it was probably about his girlfriend trying to be the "ONE". The rest of her post didn't make any sense because why would any of us be jealous or mad at Kiefer for being famous. None of us or her would be on this site now if he wasn't famous and we didn't think he was talented, sexy etc. This is what makes a person famous by others paying attention and taking an interest in them. If you want us to stop because you are the one who is jealous then poor Kiefer willn't have a fan base or don't you give a flying fig?

What do you know who is getting a taste of what from Kiefer when it comes to women, he also might be gay for all you or we know. He would never tell. Even his girlfriend of the moment wouldn't know. So do we want a taste of that. I don't! Just spectulation of course.

So Lissa, it is Kiefer who wants to keep us intrigue and most fans fall for it. Send your post to Kiefer, I'm sure he would appreciate it. If he writes back and wants us to stop, of course we will!

Yea Lissa, "Kiefer will do whatever the hell Kiefer wants to do with his life" without checking in with any of us or his girlfriends too, of course. I feel sorry for Sib! What ashame!

Yea, that's what we "do" know about Kiefer, Lissa. Thanks

6:19AM, you got it. Who cares if people speculate. People always will speculate. It just blows me away how nasty some of you biddies are about people who are strangers to you. It's really "fun" to you to be so mean? Sad. But enjoy.

Did Kiefer have a fall out with Rocco? .

3:30 If you listen to the new radio interview on BB site Kiefer did for HoneyHoney he mentioned that Rocco is at IWS recording a song "Save Yourself" for 24. I believe it is going to be the theme song for 24 because it will have footage of S. Aficia in it. Kiefer probably got Rocco the job so I guess their relationship is still going very strong. Jude has been more involved with this because of Kiefer working so much this summer, but I think with Kiefers time off in the pass few weeks he has been overlooking things for the CD because someone just did another interview with Kiefer 2 blocks from IWS and he said he was still living there. We will hear it on TV Fox station in Nov. Its 6 years for both of them now.

PS: I also believe that we will see Kiefer and Rocco together when they promote the CD and Kiefer of course with 24. So their is alot to look forward to in the next month. Maybe Kiefer and Rocco will go on Tour early next year.??

Emily M what do you mean when you say it's 6 years for both of them now.

People on this site are just having a DEBATE Lissa on the things that Kiefer has said himself. They are just pointing out their opinion about it. I haven't seen any nasty words going down. I also haven't seen where they are jealous of anybody, except for who might be right or wrong about an issue.

I'm sorry, but I haven't seen any nastiness that you are referring too. If you really want to read some NASTY things, go to KIEFER SUTHERLAND RELAPSE "Chloe I Need New Pants" and sign a complaint there. The things people said there were gross and you should enjoy that. After you enjoyed that site go to the one where Kiefer goes to jail. When you are done, come back and you will find this site pretty well tamed by then. Sad but true! Have fun and enjoy!

"I haven't seen any nasty words going down."

That might be the single funniest thing I've read here. You do get that saying nasty things about ANYONE, not just Kiefer, is "saying nasty things", right?

Yes nasty is "When Kiefer was in jail I wonder if some other guy had his dick in him?" Is that nasty enough for you. Glad we can entertain you. So please go somewhere else to enjoy yourself.

OMG! What about "Kiefer had his cock in so many holes and now Sib is sucking it"! Maybe Lissa gets now how tame this site is or was.
Sorry Kiefer, just a example about Nastiness for Lissa!

You people really don't get it, do you? And I am enjoying myself, thanks.

Yes we get it! Your finally enjoying yourself.

Continuing on being nasty: I couldnt help but notice from the Sept